How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

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Steve3007
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Steve3007 »

Actually I just reminded myself of it and it only mentions Ukraine and Georgia (and Russia via a mention of Moscow). An interesting musical historical document nevertheless.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

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Steve3007 wrote: May 10th, 2021, 7:12 am Is it part of the thesis of this topic that the Soviet Union was not an empire?
Pattern-chaser wrote: May 10th, 2021, 7:03 am In the 'West' at least, Russia is not an imperial power, and I don't think they ever were.
Sorry for my misleading contribution. Of course the USSR was an Empire, but it existed farther East than "the West" is usually considered to be. But then there was East Germany. Perhaps I was just plain wrong. Sorry. 😳
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

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popeye1945 wrote: May 10th, 2021, 9:54 am
Pattern-chaser wrote: May 10th, 2021, 7:03 am In the 'West' at least, Russia is not an imperial power, and I don't think they ever were. The British Empire (although fading by then) survived WW1, and even WW2, although it foundered soon afterwards. It was followed by the American Empire, which lasted until current times, although it is fading now. The Chinese will surely be the next imperial power. 🤔
Pattern chaser,
As my post stated it became obvious to Briton that she could no longer get her own way globally anymore, the Yanks entering into the fray to save their butts the turning point of world war one. The fact the Russia was not an Imperial power means it was not colonizing third world countries. They were however a superpower until relatively recently. After world war one, British colonies were slowly changing hands, unlike to British however who just went into these colonies and took over completely, Americans were a little more subtle, governing through puppet governments and corporations to share power. Presently the America empire is at fully strength, with a full time war economy and the most power monster war machine ever known on the earth. China is presently being targeted as the next evil empire, the states have her surrounded with military bases and nuclear weapons. Imperial comes from the colonial times, China does not have as far as I know any colonies, America cannot say the same.

Doesn't China hold a huge tranche of America's debts? In this Capitalist world (that America built by conquest), I think money puts China ahead, if the USA only has killing machines to counter it. Money trumps all.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

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popeye1945 wrote: May 10th, 2021, 10:16 am Certainly, however, they lie to their citizens as well.

Oh, and that would make them hugely different from the USA, UK, EU, in fact any modern country? We are all guilty of this one, and must bear the shame equally.

Live long, and prosper. 🖖
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

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Pattern-chaser


Oh, and that would make them hugely different from the USA, UK, EU, in fact any modern country? We are all guilty of this one, and must bear the shame equally. quote

That was rather my point, we are all lie to which amounts to propaganda in peace time, lessening the value of the propaganda's target.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

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Doesn't China hold a huge tranche of America's debts? In this Capitalist world (that America built by conquest), I think money puts China ahead, if the USA only has killing machines to counter it. Money trumps all.
[/quote]

pattern chaser.
Excellent, never thought of the that! I think to in the west they forget that in dealing with the east they are dealing with a different mentality.

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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

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popeye1945 wrote: May 11th, 2021, 8:08 am ...with the east they are dealing with a different mentality.

Personally, I don't really like this (very common) way of putting it. It allows for the interpretation that those of the East are 'different'; 'them' rather than 'us'. This leads to division and worse. I think the difference is simply one of culture. Think of Eastern religions, that respect one another, and quote from each others' religious texts, and compare that with our infinitely more civilised practice of torturing and burning anyone who disagrees with us. Eastern people are surely very different. <sickly grin>
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

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Being different doesn't equate with being less than but simply put, to encourage one to think outside the box. I do appreciate your concern, but with the west it is already the case, and that is their weakness.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

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'Their' weakness is the same as the weakness of all empires, from Kerma to the Mughals, from the Persian to the Portuguese - overreach: they get too big; the subject peoples revolt or break away; another empire nibbles at the frontiers; it all becomes too geographically diverse and expensive to police; the economy becomes too complex to audit and the officials become too corrupt to manage their departments effectively and the rulers grow effete and detached. It rots in the center. Once that's happened, all they need is a typhoon, a crop failure, an epidemic or one war too many, to bring the whole shaky edifice tumbling down.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

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Alias,
It sounds rather like you have a book in mind, the rise and fall of empires. In my above post, I was just referring to the sense of superiority over your chosen enemy, an attitude ensuring one will ultimately underestimate that said same enemy.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

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popeye1945 wrote: May 11th, 2021, 2:03 pm Alias,
It sounds rather like you have a book in mind, the rise and fall of empires. In my above post, I was just referring to the sense of superiority over your chosen enemy, an attitude ensuring one will ultimately underestimate that said same enemy.
The facile shortcut to an inaccurate conclusion? Sure, you can do it that way.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by LuckyR »

popeye1945 wrote: May 11th, 2021, 8:08 am
Pattern-chaser wrote: Doesn't China hold a huge tranche of America's debts? In this Capitalist world (that America built by conquest), I think money puts China ahead, if the USA only has killing machines to counter it. Money trumps all.
pattern chaser
Excellent, never thought of the that! I think to in the west they forget that in dealing with the east they are dealing with a different mentality.

"If you wish to be our masters you must stay in Vietnam a thousand years, and learn to eat rice."
" For every one of your soldiers we kill, you kill ten of us, still we will win." Ho Chi Minh
Uummm. Uncle Ho didn't have a lot of money, BTW.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by popeye1945 »

Alias wrote: May 11th, 2021, 11:07 pm
popeye1945 wrote: May 11th, 2021, 2:03 pm Alias,
It sounds rather like you have a book in mind, the rise and fall of empires. In my above post, I was just referring to the sense of superiority over your chosen enemy, an attitude ensuring one will ultimately underestimate that said same enemy.
The facile shortcut to an inaccurate conclusion? Sure, you can do it that way.
Alias,
I don't understand your statement, perhaps you might clarify.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Steve3007 »

Pattern-chaser wrote:Sorry for my misleading contribution. Of course the USSR was an Empire, but it existed farther East than "the West" is usually considered to be. But then there was East Germany. Perhaps I was just plain wrong. Sorry. 😳
If we're talking about "The West" then I think we first have to acknowledge that it's a bit like the word "atom" in that it is divorced from its etymological origins. I assume you putting it in scare-quotes in an acknowledgement of that. People generally put "the west" in scare-quotes to indicate that although it may once have been tied to a range of longitude lines it isn't really any more. I think Australasia, for example, is probably usually counted as part of "the west". And as you say, during the height of the cold war when the Soviet empire had reached its maximum extent, it reached a long way towards the west of Europe. I suppose "the west" usually indicates a vaguely defined combination of political system and a cultural identity with origins in western Europe.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Sculptor1 »

popeye1945 wrote: May 10th, 2021, 5:56 pm You've convinced me, but out of all the empires exercising these colonial tendencies how did it become the evil empire, and is China the next evil empire. I am obviously over my head here, so perhaps I'll just hang in there and do the best I can and let the more knowledgable lead the way here.
It is "evil" because your people describe it so.
Of all the "evil empires" in the world let's not forget the USA which has been the cause of most of all the wars, revolutions and political instabilities since 1945.

CHina is not more or less "evil" than the USA, or any of the other imperialist, colonialist, or economistic empires. Theya re all self serving at the expense of other nations and cultures.
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