Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

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Cogito ergo sum
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Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by Cogito ergo sum »

Is there a difference between rights and freedoms? It seems that the two words are used interchangeably a lot and I have been thinking, is their a difference? For example I hear a lot of people saying that they have the "right" to bear arms. Ok, so what does that mean? Would it be any different if they said I have the "Freedom" to bear arms? Is the idea of rights outlined in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence inherently vulnerable to being taken away and given back? Would it have made more sense to say the all men are endowed with certain unalienable freedoms? And if freedom is one of our rights does that mean it is susceptible to being granted and taken away as seen fit by the government? Or if my freedom infringes on some ones rights who is in the right?
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Grotto19
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by Grotto19 »

Every law represents a restriction of freedom. This is the fundamental problem with most Americans conflating freedom with rights. A right is actually a restriction on the freedom of others. In a truly free society you could do whatever you wished, so for example you would be free to rape a woman if you are able to, but her rights protect her from your rape. Americans confuse and try to reverse this concept. The right to bear arms means you are protected by law from someone taking away your freedom to own an “arm”. Of course there is more to that amendment than people like to quote.

Freedom allows me to drive down the highway at 150 MPH if I want, rights (in this case of security and domestic tranquility) see to it that I no longer have that freedom. Freedom is the lack of legislation and rights are the very manifestation of them. Americans confuse this or in many cases try to reverse it. Btw I am American, I am just well aware that Americans are the most obsessive about their perceived “freedom”.
Alias
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by Alias »

A right is to; a freedom is from.

They are the same in that other people in the society [including their agents as constituted by government] agree that it's okay for you to be, have or do something that you are able to be, have or do, without needing to justify it, explain it or pay for it.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
GaianDave51
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by GaianDave51 »

If you have a right to do something (act, speak or think), then you are at liberty to do so. No individual or group ought to prevent you from doing it; they are morally in the wrong if they do or try to do so.

Rights are specific protections, supports and/or facilitators of an individual's freedoms. An individual's freedoms are the absences of physical, mental, emotional, moral or spiritual suffering. An individual is completely free iff they are not enduring any of these sufferings.

Rights are also specific protections, supports and/or facilitators of certain of an individual's liberties. An individual's liberties are absences of constraints on their actions. Rights mostly protect an individual's or group's freedoms from other individuals' or groups' actions by constraining certain of their liberties.

Freedoms are primary, liberties are secondary, and rights mediate the relationship between the two. The use of all three of these terms more or less interchangeably, confuses their respective differences in meaning, usually to the detriment of an individual's freedom.
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Rederic
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by Rederic »

Along with "rights" comes responsibility. If you're not responsible towards other citizens then your "right" should be taken away.
Religion is at its best when it makes us ask hard questions of ourselves.
It is at its worst when it deludes us into thinking we have all the answers for everybody else.
Archibald Macleish.
GaianDave51
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by GaianDave51 »

Rederic,

Only your "right" (which doesn't really exist in the first place, in the context of whatever society) to do that thing, which is irresponsible to do, should be taken away.

BTW, what is your (and others on this forum) conception of "responsibility"? To me, responsibility is achieved when one acts, full-knowingly, in congruence with the system of ethics to which one's milieu (group, society, culture, nation, etc.) subscribes.
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Rederic
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by Rederic »

GaianDave51 wrote:Rederic,

Only your "right" (which doesn't really exist in the first place, in the context of whatever society) to do that thing, which is irresponsible to do, should be taken away.

BTW, what is your (and others on this forum) conception of "responsibility"? To me, responsibility is achieved when one acts, full-knowingly, in congruence with the system of ethics to which one's milieu (group, society, culture, nation, etc.) subscribes.
I think that's what I said. You can learn to drive a car, take a test, buy a licence. You then have the right to buy a car & drive it on public roads. But if you're caught driving a car whilst drunk or driving irresponsibly in a dangerous manner, then you lose the right for a period of time.
Religion is at its best when it makes us ask hard questions of ourselves.
It is at its worst when it deludes us into thinking we have all the answers for everybody else.
Archibald Macleish.
Spectrum
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by Spectrum »

Right in general is 'restriction of each individual's Freedom so that it harmonises with the Freedom of everyone else' [not mine]

Right in general comprised of
1. Natural Rights as a human being
2. Statutory Rights -since we live within a community we have no choice by to abide by them.

So all modern humans has to live within their respective Statutory Rights but collectively has the Natural and Moral Rights to change and co-create existing Statutory Rights.
So those who are subjugated under autocratic, dictatorial or sovereign rule still has that basic natural and moral right to uplift the existing statutory rights to more refined moral rights, e.g. more democratic based statutory rights.

When one say they have the freedom to do what they want, that is pseudo-freedom as that is overridden by the limits of the existing statutory rights. If one lives in the middle of a jungle or ocean out of the jurisdiction of any legal net, then one is still subject to one's natural and moral right.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
David_the_simple
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by David_the_simple »

It appears that it would behoove us to have a concrete definition of freedom and rights.

Those definitions need to address the core of what freedom and rights are. This requires a good model. This model must contain both or all relevant dualisms. For example, if morality exist, then fairness and justice must also exist.

Freedom in context of rights, morals, fairness and justice would go to the tune of: freedom to act or not without violating morals, being unfair and concern of justice.

Rights are the legal endorsement of morals.
Hoggy
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by Hoggy »

re #1:

This sounds like a cop out but I think you are assuming too much in your particular reference. The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence is a declaration of independence from an authority (Great Britain). Obviously it is a fundamentally insolent declaration of freedom from British government. So obviously it really only means the freedom of those declaring themselves to be free from their own perspective after the break out as it were.

It is a long standing obligation of Great Britain to recapture them and this is why, if Britain had aligned with Germany during WW2 the USA would be part of Canada today (as Roosveldt realised) and the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence defunct.
David_the_simple
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by David_the_simple »

History has played its part in the declaration of independence, for sure, but here is an opportunity to improve on it.

By building a better model/understanding, we could tweak the constitution to make is more resilient. By this I mean updated to handle our current dilute representation (to population density), judicial loop holes, and slow economic take over.

This being said, an adequate definition/model of freedom, rights, morals, fairness, justice, etc stands to be developed.
Hoggy
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by Hoggy »

Ignore it; it is only a piece of toilet paper exhorting lunatics at large to subscribe to a communal pretence they have the right to life etc of released inmates by exploiting the difference between the two types of freedom.
David_the_simple
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by David_the_simple »

Hoggy wrote:Ignore it; it is only a piece of toilet paper exhorting lunatics at large to subscribe to a communal pretence they have the right to life etc of released inmates by exploiting the difference between the two types of freedom.
1) a constitution does aid in the stability of a culture. The proof is historical and empirical. Legal and judicial branches refer to a constitution to build and dispense laws. It is the gray areas in a constitution that allows legislative branches to morph a culture, hence why you are perceiving "toilet paper".

2) It is obvious upon reading our Constitution, that morals were not written into it. How could our forefathers known that is was necessary? Now we know!

3) It is a proposal to write morals into our constitution. Morals as in emergent rules of behavior out a living system of social creatures. Not arbitrary Sunday school morals (which do have their basis in emergent morals). These constitutional recognized morals would stabilize a culture to stop 'exhorting lunatics'.

4) Please define the two types of freedom
Hoggy
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Re: Is there a difference between rights and freedoms?

Post by Hoggy »

re 1; it is not a constitution merely a pact between fugitives to treat each other as though constitutionally released: toilet paper. The actual constitution is the auspice which classified them free (ie fugitives). 2. The consitution is very moral indeed: Americans have no right to life, liberty and especially the pursuit of their happiness. The fugitive pact itself actually presupposes it. If they had infact been constitionally released the totemic piece of toilet paper would not be worshipped by them because they would all have known they possessed the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness of persons constitutionally released from custody without signing an agreement to that effect. 3) Not at all Americans have no right to life liberty or the pursuit of happiness morally by virtue of the fact they were not released. The pact does not create a status but merely compacts the signatories (evidently insane) to it. 4) Freedom is freedom: release from custody or evasion of custody. Since the signatories were fugitives fled from custody they forfieted the right to life as well as liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They had two options to either treat each other realistically in that respect or compact themselves into a schiziod pretence of release. The signatories are merely those choosing the latter but others would have rejected it.

-- Updated November 10th, 2014, 12:25 pm to add the following --

You do not appear to appreciate the utter horror of the realisation that Americans survived the Redcoats and would inevitably pursue their own happiness in circumstances of intrammelled liberty at large in the world. We ripped Napoleon to shreds in grief with a ferocity you could only imagine because of his part in it.
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