Childish, moronic, head in sand straw man.Eduk wrote: ↑September 6th, 2018, 6:38 pm Thomas. Just to be super clear.
1. People get their information from msm.
2. Msm is all equivalent to mein kampf.
3. It is obviously all equivalent to mein kampf.
4. So presumably, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but what you are saying is that people are too flawed to realise this obvious thing?
Should the UK leave the European Union?
- ThomasHobbes
- Posts: 1122
- Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
-
- Posts: 2466
- Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Socrates
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
-
- Posts: 10339
- Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
How about another referendum with 3 choices:
1. Theresa May's deal.
2. No deal.
3. No Brexit.
-
- Posts: 2466
- Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Socrates
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
The political backlash is interesting.
I was watching parliament for a while before I became depressed with the innane questions and non answers.
People do so love a narrative and the narrative seemed to be that it was a terrible deal even though no one once said anything interesting about why it was a bad deal.
-
- Posts: 2466
- Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Socrates
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
I think all the major parties should put out a joint statement that we are a representative democracy and none of the parties will leave the EU.
And then ignore the whole debacle and get on with doing nothing like normal.
-
- Posts: 10339
- Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
I think the "hard Brexiters" like Rees-Mogg would disagree. In parliament yesterday, Rees-Mogg quoted specific sections from the document that he claims go back on manifesto commitments re Brexit. I haven't personally had time to try to properly examine the claims and counter-claims yet....no one once said anything interesting about why it was a bad deal.
-
- Posts: 2466
- Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Socrates
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
As I understand it the conservatives wanted to remain so had no leave manifesto?
And the leave campaign was just random nonsense. Like they are promising round squares and TM is failing to deliver.
-
- Posts: 10339
- Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
Their current narrative, that the mess is the fault of our incompetent negotiators, simply doesn't work. If it was going to be as easy as they claimed it would be then no government, no matter how incompetent, could have messed it up.
Meanwhile, the evidence seems to suggest that the British people are as baffled and divided by the whole thing as ever. In polls, there now appears to be a small majority in favour of staying in the EU, but it's based on nothing more substantial than the original small majority in favour of leaving.
There could scarcely be a more perfect illustration of the concerns expressed by Plato's parable of the ship.
-
- Posts: 2466
- Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Socrates
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
Sadly this is true. Every time I hear a politician (or anyone) claiming to 'know what the people voted for' I die a little.Meanwhile, the evidence seems to suggest that the British people are as baffled and divided by the whole thing as ever.
It seems to be working quite well.Their current narrative, that the mess is the fault of our incompetent negotiators, simply doesn't work.
For me the central lie was that we don't need experts. That people should trust themselves.For me, the central lie of the Leave Campaign was the notion that the UK is such a large powerful country that the rest of the EU needs us far more than we need them
Fact is that after we leave the EU 'we' still won't actually know what the result was.
-
- Moderator
- Posts: 6105
- Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
It's very likely true that a lot of Brexiters, probably the older people, are jingoists. However most Brexiters will have voted to leave the EU because of lies told them about how they will be materially better off without Europe.
-
- Posts: 2466
- Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Socrates
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
I doubt that. I don't have any empirical evidence to prove for what reason people voted (and you don't either). But I highly doubt the accuracy of your statement. What makes you so confident?However most Brexiters will have voted to leave the EU because of lies told them about how they will be materially better off without Europe.
-
- Posts: 2181
- Joined: January 7th, 2015, 7:09 am
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
It's not a terrible WA in the circs, mostly more can kicking really, so they can have something they can sign in March and rubberstamp Brexit. But everybody realises the Parliamentary vote is their best chance to stop Brexit, or take charge of it, so this is the natural opportunity to do battle.
Anything could still happen, from No Deal to No Brexit, it's bonkers.
Best poss end scenario, Tories self-destruct and PM Jez concedes 2nd ref is the only way to break the impasse, and we stay in. Could happen...
-
- Posts: 10339
- Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
So it seems, right now.Gertie wrote:Anything could still happen, from No Deal to No Brexit, it's bonkers.
At this stage, yes, it looks like it could. The hardline Brexiters regard the deal on offer right now as worse than not leaving at all.Best poss end scenario, Tories self-destruct and PM Jez concedes 2nd ref is the only way to break the impasse, and we stay in. Could happen...
I was amused by a headline I just skimmed over which said "Are we risking a Hotel California Brexit?"
I didn't read the story, but I presume the line from that song that they're thinking of is "you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."
-
- Posts: 10339
- Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
-
- Posts: 10339
- Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Re: Should the UK leave the European Union?
There would be a funny kind of symmetry to that.
David Cameron didn't want to leave the EU but he caused a referendum that resulted in the vote to leave.
Jeremy Corbyn does want to leave the EU, but he could cause a referendum that, if current polls are to be believed, will result in a vote to remain.
That would be quite funny.
2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
2023 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023