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Does Trump Want To Be President?

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Ormond
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Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Ormond » June 24th, 2016, 10:20 am

This thread will examine whether Donald Trump actually wants to be President. I will start by listing some arguments against, feel free to counter with the opposing case.

1) Trump is not doing the serious fund raising which is usually the backbone of a Presidential campaign.

2) Trump is not the building the nation wide organization necessary to identify swing voters and craft messages necessary to win them over.

3) Trump appears not to be modifying his message from the primary to the general election, as is standard in all other campaigns.

4) The salary of President wouldn't motivate Trump given he's already a billionaire.

5) Ideology doesn't seem to motivate Trump given his loose relationship with any stated position.

6) The Washington press corp will have a gotcha field day with Trump given how often he shifts his positions. In addition, they will dig their way in to the nitty gritty details of Trumps personal and business life, in the endless search for dirt.

7) Democrats will of course demonize Trump in a manner that will make their relationship with George Bush look like a love affair.

8) The last thing the Republican leaders want is for a President Trump to hang around, be successful and take over the party. Expect lots of quiet back stabbing behind the scenes.

9) Trump voters are not really loyal to Trump personally, they are just using him to make a larger point. If Trump should experience failures, I predict they will abandon him as quickly as they adopted him. Trump without the "we are winners!" message is nothing.

10) Actually being President is a huge pain in the butt, with seemingly insolvable problems being shoved in one's face on a daily basis. Is this really want Trump wants to do with the rest of his life?

Given the above, a theory to explain Trump.

Trump is a business man. His business is his brand, his name, himself. I think he entered the race to build his brand, and so far it's going great.

But what happens to his brand if he wins and then has a failed Presidency, due to a lack of support from all established power blocks?

I predict Trump's goal is to lose the race in a narrow vote so he can get out of all this Presidential hassle still claiming a triumph of sorts, and then carry on with the business of renting his now enhanced brand to the highest bidder.
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Supine » July 3rd, 2016, 11:14 am

At #4:

You may be right. But becoming a US President has become to mean becoming part of the millionaire club. Getting into politics in general is a way of self enriching ones self through corruption. Look at Hilary Clinton. She's made multiple millions by simply being an influential US politician that special interest groups seek to influence. I mean... banks pay Hilary Clinton something like $200,000 per hour to give them a speech for an hour or two (I presume an hour or two). For what reason? Hilary Clinton is more formally educated in finance, banking, and economics than both economists and bankers? :lol:

If this were Mexico and not the USA and Hilary Clinton was a Mexican woman in the Mexican political machine she would be accused of corruption by Americans. You know... how Americans think their nation is so above corruption in the political process.

You become the US President not to help the majority (and "majority" constitutes more than the LGBTQ and female population of the USA Hilary is catering to in her campaign, so, what about the impoverished young white males of small-town Indiana?) but to personally enrich yourself. You leave office a multi-millionaire and you have your own personal armed army afterwards, even after you have disarmed poor and middle-class Americans.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Ormond » July 3rd, 2016, 11:59 am

Supine wrote:But becoming a US President has become to mean becoming part of the millionaire club. Getting into politics in general is a way of self enriching ones self through corruption.
I take your point, but does this apply to Trump, who already has tons of money?

Clearly the primaries have boosted Trump's brand considerably, which we can assume he will translate in to increased profits for his brand based businesses. So far, a big success.

But if Trump becomes President he risks very public failures, which will not be good for his brand. As example, see the damage done to the Bush family brand by the war in Iraq.

So my theory is that Trump hopes to lose the coming election by a respectable margin so that he can safely hang on to the brand boost he's already won. You know, cash in one's chips at the poker table while one is still winning. If Trump really is all about business, that seems the smart move to make at this point.
If the things we want to hear could take us where we want to go, we'd already be there.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Supine » July 3rd, 2016, 6:10 pm

Ormond wrote:
Supine wrote:But becoming a US President has become to mean becoming part of the millionaire club. Getting into politics in general is a way of self enriching ones self through corruption.
I take your point, but does this apply to Trump, who already has tons of money?

Clearly the primaries have boosted Trump's brand considerably, which we can assume he will translate in to increased profits for his brand based businesses. So far, a big success.

But if Trump becomes President he risks very public failures, which will not be good for his brand. As example, see the damage done to the Bush family brand by the war in Iraq.

So my theory is that Trump hopes to lose the coming election by a respectable margin so that he can safely hang on to the brand boost he's already won. You know, cash in one's chips at the poker table while one is still winning. If Trump really is all about business, that seems the smart move to make at this point.
I've never considered that as a goal Donald Trump might have. If you are correct that might make Trump either brilliant (in business or marketing at least) or sinister. Maybe both.

Trump seems to have understood or perceived a strong current of discontent among many males (largely white) that feel left behind or unrepresented in a political voice. I think the Democratic and Republican establishment have dismissed with varying degrees of prejudice and sheer disdain this group of Americans. So, even if he approached the Presidential campaign with no intent to win but rather as a business model to better market and develop his brand, he ironically understood something about a large portion of American men that no Democrat or Republican has.

Well... maybe Bernie Sanders did and he seemed to capture the appreciation of young American women as well. Which surprised me. I thought almost all of them would be for the female supremacist, warmongering hawk, Russo-phobic Hilary Adolf Clinton. A staunch Luciferian in my view.

The joint Democrat-Republican cabal seems pretty cocky in their certainty that no coalition of impoverished white males and Black-American males, with ex-convicts in their ranks, ex-military men in their ranks, will ever send bullets down range headed for their eye sockets, target their family homes with their children in it for bon-fire, or with edged weapon in hand try to hit the neck of a Secret Service agent (part of their guard detail) with the force an enraged, hateful man tries to punch through a wall with.

Anyways... if Donald Trump does lose as I suspect he will, all the American women on TV criticizing him will be licking at the bottom of his rich, powerful shoes just as they did before his campaign began. Hypocrites and liars as they are.

I totally disagree with Trump on undocumented Mexicans being criminals. I think the vast majority of them keep their heads down, work hard, and are good neighbors that only want a better life. But I'd vote for Trump anyways out of sheer disdain for that Democrat-Republican cabal. Bernie being my preferred candidate/President.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Ormond » July 3rd, 2016, 6:29 pm

Supine wrote:I've never considered that as a goal Donald Trump might have. If you are correct that might make Trump either brilliant (in business or marketing at least) or sinister. Maybe both.
My take is it's some combination of marketing genius and lucky timing. As you explain...
Trump seems to have understood or perceived a strong current of discontent among many males (largely white) that feel left behind or unrepresented in a political voice. I think the Democratic and Republican establishment have dismissed with varying degrees of prejudice and sheer disdain this group of Americans. So, even if he approached the Presidential campaign with no intent to win but rather as a business model to better market and develop his brand, he ironically understood something about a large portion of American men that no Democrat or Republican has.
Yes, I think that's a great analysis, right on the money. Trump's contribution has been to make clear to all how entirely out of touch the political and media elites really are.
Well... maybe Bernie Sanders did and he seemed to capture the appreciation of young American women as well.
Young people generally are in love with Sanders. Imho, Sanders taps in to another stream of alienation, but in a much more intelligent and sincere way than Trump. Trump is talking to the past (a society dominated by white men) and Sanders is talking to the future, the coming generation that will soon be running the show.
Which surprised me. I thought almost all of them would be for the female supremacist, warmongering hawk, Russo-phobic Hilary Adolf Clinton. A staunch Luciferian in my view.
I supported Sanders, but must admit I don't get the Hillary hate phenomena, just as I didn't get the Bush hate phenomena. More than a bit over the top me thinks.
The joint Democrat-Republican cabal seems pretty cocky in their certainty that no coalition of impoverished white males and Black-American males, with ex-convicts in their ranks, ex-military men in their ranks, will ever send bullets down range headed for their eye sockets, target their family homes with their children in it for bon-fire, or with edged weapon in hand try to hit the neck of a Secret Service agent (part of their guard detail) with the force an enraged, hateful man tries to punch through a wall with.
Um, Sieg Heil! :lol:
Anyways... if Donald Trump does lose as I suspect he will, all the American women on TV criticizing him will be licking at the bottom of his rich, powerful shoes just as they did before his campaign began. Hypocrites and liars as they are.
All the American women are TV are hypocrites and liars? Darn, and I was hoping they were all bimbo sluts who did cheap house calls.
I totally disagree with Trump on undocumented Mexicans being criminals.
I agree in general but, um, technically he's right.
I think the vast majority of them keep their heads down, work hard, and are good neighbors that only want a better life.
Right, agreed. But it's also fair to say they aren't entirely willing to play by the rules, and respect the rights of their new neighbors.
But I'd vote for Trump anyways out of sheer disdain for that Democrat-Republican cabal. Bernie being my preferred candidate/President.
Well, if you respect Bernie as I do, keep in mind his advice will be that we vote for Adolph Clinton. I think the country is more important than your sheer disdain frankly, no offense.
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Felix » July 3rd, 2016, 6:40 pm

if Trump becomes President he risks very public failures, which will not be good for his brand.
He already has numerous public failures and I see more on the horizon. And I don't think he's all that rich, he has a lot of debt, e.g., he owes about $100 Million in mortgage loans to foreign banks (in Germany, China, et. al.) I suspect that's one of he main reasons he doesn't want to release his tax returns, voters will discover his net worth is no where near high as he's stated - plus he'll have to explain why he's routinely paid little or no personal income taxes. I think he's a sleazy character with delusions of grandeur and this will eventually come out in the wash.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin

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Ormond
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Ormond » July 3rd, 2016, 7:03 pm

He already has numerous public failures...
Not really, he has instead defeated the entire Republican Party all by himself, no small accomplishment. If he could somehow exit the stage gracefully now, he would go out a huge winner, and his brand would be seriously enhanced.
and I see more on the horizon.
This I agree with.

If he's elected, the party will be over, and the brand will begin to fail.
If the things we want to hear could take us where we want to go, we'd already be there.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Burning ghost » July 4th, 2016, 4:07 am

It would be funny if he won then declined Presidency and claimed the whole campaign was a joke to show how broken the system is and how money is needed to become president rather than actual policy or political intelligence.

Also if someone does not want to be president they are probably the ones we should back. Wanting to be president should not be a personal choice it should be one other persuade you to make against your better judgement. People who want control are, in my experience, not the best people to give control to. Admittedly this does make the whole situation of election rather confusing!
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Ormond » July 4th, 2016, 8:13 am

Burning ghost wrote:It would be funny if he won then declined Presidency
Ha, I hadn't thought of that. Yes, that would be very Trumpish, he'd dominate the news round the clock for a month with that move. Billions of dollars of free advertising. Interesting!
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Steve3007 » July 4th, 2016, 11:33 am

I wonder what would happen if Trump did win and then declined. Would his vice presidential running mate have to step into the breech? Or would Hilary win by default? Or would poor old Barack have to keep going, just when he thought the finishing line was in sight? (He's getting greyer by the day. They always do. Whatever it is that they get told when they become president it clearly scares the willies out of them.)

There was a topical game show in which the long running host was involved in a scandal and had to stop presenting it. The problem of who to get to follow in his footsteps was solved by having a different celebrity guest presenter each week. Perhaps that could be an option. A different celebrity president each week. Trump could be one of them, as an ironic twist.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Ormond » July 4th, 2016, 12:47 pm

Steve, I've been wondering that too since the brilliant idea by Burning Ghost. My guess is the VP would step in. It might depend on when Trump bowed out, before or after being sworn in. Personally, I think Burning Ghost would be the best choice for Pres, he seems to have his finger on the pulse.

My idea was that Trump hopes to lose by a respectable margin. But Burning Ghost's idea is much much better.

If Trump handled it right, he could rise to the level of statesman by winning and then bowing out. He could say, in words better than these, that his campaign was a test of the American political system and that we failed, we're fired, we don't deserve him as President.

TO THE MEDIA: You gave me almost all the air time of the entire campaign for the sole reason that I put on a childish melodrama reality TV show that you could use to boost audience and ad revenues. All you care about is money, you are corrupt, you're fired.

TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY: You accepted me as your nominee even though I've blatantly ignored many of your party's basic principles, have branded your party as a junior high cartoon game show, and have worked over time to insult and alienate the Hispanic voters you desperately need to have any chance of winning this office in the future. All you care about is power, you are corrupt, you're fired.

TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY: The candidate you ran against me blatantly takes large sums of cash from Wall Street, the very people whose corruption came within an inch of crashing the global economy and bringing on the next world war. All you care about is power, you are corrupt, you're fired.

TO TRUMP VOTERS: You voted for me even though I repeatedly made blatantly racist statements in every possible direction, insulted and threatened our next door neighbor, and argued strenuously for trade policies that would have made everything you have to buy much more expensive. You are sad, you are stupid, you are fired.

It could be a totally non-partisan slam on our entire culture, a slap across the face that we most likely desperately need.

It would also be highly controversial and newsworthy, which Trump could milk, milk, milk for maybe years to come. If anybody could pull this off it might be Trump given that he seems to thrive on being hated.

If Trump had this much vision, this much creativity, this big of balls, this kind of ability to rock the boat and explode out of the stale soggy corrupt status quo, I just might vote for him. :lol:

Burning Ghost - when you become Trump's campaign manager don't forget I'm available for speech writing. :lol:
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Steve3007 » July 5th, 2016, 10:39 am

Yes, I think this idea of Trumping "firing" the whole of western civilisation is such a good one that we should pretend that it happened anyway, even if it doesn't. A couple of years later, once the movie has been made to dramatise the whole thing, nobody will remember anyway.

To play Trump in the movie: I think Phillip Seymour-Hoffman would have been good. Pity he's dead. Perhaps Woody Allen.

-- Updated Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:39 pm to add the following --

Sorry, I meant "Trump" not "Trumping".

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Supine » July 6th, 2016, 12:04 am

Ormond wrote: I supported Sanders, but must admit I don't get the Hillary hate phenomena, just as I didn't get the Bush hate phenomena. More than a bit over the top me thinks.
Well, if you respect Bernie as I do, keep in mind his advice will be that we vote for Adolph Clinton. I think the country is more important than your sheer disdain frankly, no offense.
Every US President leads a war. That may or may not have stopped under Bernie or Trump. I think it's less likely Bernie or Trump would on their own accord lead the US empire into another of its traditional wars for yet again "freedom" and "national security," than the status quo candidates of the Democrat-Republican alliance. But who knows. The people running the Presidents might tell a man like Trump that they'll have his daughter raped, tortured, and killed if he does not lead the US into war.

Hilary Clinton is older than myself and according to so many Americans "she speaks with so much statesmanship to foreign leaders." Yet, she speaks about Putin the democratically elected (by wide majority popular vote) President of Russia like a middle-school kid on a playground.

Putin speaks like a statesman more than any US politician including Hilary. Out sized, out financed, out gun, and out manned and he still out classes Hilary and every man and woman in Congress and on the US Supreme Court. Surely, he and Russia are the Spartan 300 in that Hollywood movie and the US empire dragging along (as all empires do) its serf nations in the EU are the villains in that movie, with Hilary Clinton soon to be telling Putin and a defiant Russia, "We will blot out the sun with our arrows," and Putin responding on behalf of his 300 Russians, "Good! then we will fight in the shade."

Bearing in mind 200 Russian alpha males in France just beat down several thousand English alpha males.

The problem is both the US and Russia have many nuclear ICBM weapons that can destroy both nations and send most of earth into a nuclear winter. Of course, no rational American thinks either country will launch. Sound reasoning. But that's the problem. The problem when grown people play and play with the lives of every other human in their nation and on earth. No one predicts for the mistake, the irrational mistake. "It's all fun and games until someone gets their eye poked out."

Right now, children and vulnerable adults are getting their eyes poked out in Syria and Libya, and so it's funny and cool to us back here in the USA. Our proxy war with Russia in Syria and the Ukraine.

I mean... the US empire can get along with Saudi Arabia even if it beheads a young man, sews his head back onto his corpse, and then crucifies that corpse for public display. The Democrats will be cool with this, as well as the homosexuals the Kingdom stones to death. But tiny Cuba and bigger Russia we can't be cool with if we can't absolutely control their leaders and therefore their people.

(Unlike Abby Martin I like the UAE city-states. I share some of her issues with Saudi Arabia though. I don't agree with Abby Martin's pro-abortion views either.)

(That last video on Saudi Arabia is Abby Martin's show she hosts, owned by a South American company.)

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Steve3007 » July 13th, 2016, 2:26 am

I read that in endorsing Hilary Clinton, Bernie Sanders has persuaded her to move to the left slightly, vowing to extend the Affordable Car Act, for example. So even though Sanders is not going to be president, he's still made a real difference, if she wins.

Although with the whole email scandal still rumbling on, you'd think Trump would have a massive opportunity to take the lead. But instead, in a speech in which he should (from him campaign's point of view) have been concentrating on painting Clinton as criminally irresponsible with the nation's security he veered off piste and started raving about how Saddam Hussein was good at killing terrorists. So maybe it's true. Maybe he really doesn't want to become president.

-- Updated Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:28 am to add the following --

Error: When I said "Affordable Car Act" I meant "Affordable Care Act". Although I'm sure the former would be very popular and should be seriously considered by any populist politician.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Ormond » July 13th, 2016, 7:53 am

Steve3007 wrote: So maybe it's true. Maybe he really doesn't want to become president.
Supposedly he will announce his VP pick this week, so that may provide important new evidence. The pick seems particularly important as I have my doubts Trump could make it all the way through a four year term.

When mainstream Republicans get fed up and split from Trump, Trump will then be the leader of the Trump Rump Party, a particularly apt name.
If the things we want to hear could take us where we want to go, we'd already be there.

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