Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

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Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by -1- » June 20th, 2017, 4:45 pm

Right now we have a POTUS who is at best inadequate, at worst an imbecile, and at medium a narcissistic boor.

But that's not bad, even if he does not do any work, or if he blotches up his job. Because the president's MAJOR decision making power is to veto the work and the decision of the Congress and/or Senate.

The President has limited power of execution. Very. His only fully independent actions are at wartime, as he can make decisions without the approval of the Congress. But in effect, the Presidency is a falsely advertized power. There is no or little power that a president can yield.

Therefore Trump being a president is no danger to the USA, because the grunt of the governmental work is carried out by the elected representatives.

Now. Trump got in on a populist ticket -- he promised to undertake to make America great again. There is no plan, no road map, no line of attack, only tremendous support by voters in his endeavour.

In effect, a lazy, incompetent man got elected by most of the nation, by spewing demagogy in the election. The work is carried out by people who got elected by the same constituents.

What if during the elections of these other people, who run for seats in Congress and in the Senate, candidates realize what a huge advantage it would be to run in elections on the strength of demagogue slogans, and when in office, do nothing but collect money?

If Trump could get elected despite his known failings, but on the strength of image, well-chosen slogans, and quippy, but boisterous remarks in debates, why can't everyone else?

Then we will have a government in which TRULY nobody does any work. They are in, that's their aim, but there is no commitment to doing a good job at it.

What then?

Will the press and the judicial system be able to pick up the slack? Of law-making. I hardly think so. Those institutions provide checks, not executive powers.

Who will decide how much duty to slap on Canadian soft lumber, whom to sell high-powered weaponry and whom not to, what the federal minimum wage shall be, what form of national health care system to introduce and maintain. These things and many others that are the results of the job of the Congress will no longer be done.

Is this too far fetched? I mean, if Trump could do it, why can't anyone else, and everyone else?

How long before people wake up to the potential of becoming an elected representative with no responsible adherence to doing the duties of job related tasks? Trump woke up to it; why can't others?

And what will happen to us then?
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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by Woodart » June 20th, 2017, 7:44 pm

All I can say is great thread!

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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by -1- » June 20th, 2017, 9:22 pm

Woodart wrote:All I can say is great thread!
Thanks, Woodart!!

Let's make this thread great again!!

-- Updated 2017 June 20th, 9:22 pm to add the following --
Woodart wrote:All I can say is great thread!
Thanks, Woodart!!

Let's make this thread great again!!

-- Updated 2017 June 20th, 9:23 pm to add the following --

Beezus. It gives me double posts again. Brrr. Bzzz.

There goes the plan of making this thread great again.
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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by Spectrum » June 20th, 2017, 10:24 pm

I agree Trump is narcissistic, an egomaniac, not an effective team leader & player in this political scenario. Trump's used of regular Twitter messages [could have been sent while he was sitting in the toilet] is a sign of messed up management. It is wrong for a President of a Nation [or any organization] to express his personal views without a majority consensus from his team.
Right now we have a POTUS who is at best inadequate, at worst an imbecile, and at medium a narcissistic boor.
I think the use of 'imbecile' and your various condemnations do not reflect a balanced view but getting too emotional.
Is this too far fetched? I mean, if Trump could do it, why can't anyone else, and everyone else?
I suggest you run for President in the next election and prove you can do a better job.

I believe what Trump had failed so far is his failure to present himself as a team leader in getting support of his party. He should not have been so gung-ho so early but rather start slowly by repairing damages from the election battle and take time to strategize on how to gel with his team members.

To be balanced and fair, I believed there are positive achievements from Trump but they got buried by the more News-worthy reports.
One significant plus point I attribute to Trump is his win and putting a barrier to the infiltration and infestations of Islamist vermins within the White House. Now that is done, I would not be bothered if Trump is impeached.
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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by Burning ghost » June 21st, 2017, 1:45 pm

Is this too far fetched? I mean, if Trump could do it, why can't anyone else, and everyone else?
Money? Of course you can be poor and become POTUS if you are lucky and willing to bend your opinions to navigate being slurred and sullied in the public eye before getting even half-way there.

You'll need the backing of some big money earners and you'll need to bend to their will in order to get funded. If you stab them in the back they'll bring you down.

Go for it though!
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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by Woodart » June 21st, 2017, 1:53 pm

Burning ghost wrote:
You'll need the backing of some big money earners and you'll need to bend to their will in order to get funded. If you stab them in the back they'll bring you down.

This is the sad state of affairs - depressing - demoralizing. I don't know if it can be overcome.

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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by Burning ghost » June 21st, 2017, 2:27 pm

Maybe I am being overly cynical! I do believe that there is a way around every obstacle and that every obstacle overcome helps the truth come out the winner at the end of the day. Cynical yet an optimist! ;)
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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by Woodart » June 21st, 2017, 5:38 pm

Burning ghost wrote:Maybe I am being overly cynical! I do believe that there is a way around every obstacle and that every obstacle overcome helps the truth come out the winner at the end of the day. Cynical yet an optimist! ;)

I agree with you. I call myself a skeptical optimist. However, sometimes I feel like a fool.

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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by -1- » June 21st, 2017, 6:37 pm

Woodart wrote: I agree with you. I call myself a skeptical optimist. However, sometimes I feel like a fool.
Same here!! I'm a skeletal optician.

Well, similar. Same difference.

Whatever.
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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by Shanor » June 24th, 2017, 4:54 am

I believe that senate members are essentially different then a president. This is because of how people perceive these positions. A voter wants a president who will tell them what they want because the president seems to be all powerful. But a voter would like to have a more grounded senate member because they seem less important. Because of this they want that member to be useful to further what they believe. Just as a voter would want a judicial official to be as unbiased as possible. All of these different positions create different views of who should be let in based on what they do, how many people they will have to convince ,as well as who they can order.

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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by Fan of Science » June 27th, 2017, 9:31 pm

I agree with your general assessment of Trump, but disagree that most Americans supported him. Game theory explains why he won the GOP nomination. He was the only extremist candidate in a large field. All the conspiracy-theorist, white-supremacists in the GOP would have focused their votes on him, while the more moderate members of the GOP would have had their votes divided among numerous other candidates. We see this quite often in state elections where an extremist candidate among a large moderate field wins the nomination, while most people in the party dislike the candidate. Then, Trump was lucky that the Dems rigged their primary to nominate a flawed candidate who was disliked by many. Both Trump and Clinton were disliked by most Americans.

Now, here is one fact from history that concerns me --- when Hitler obtained power, this caused Germans in general to become far more anti-Semitic than they were previously. Once a person gains power, people have a tendency to endorse that person's views. We have seen this occurring already with many in the GOP who were against Trump initially now acting like he is the second coming.

What mainly concerns me is the existence of Trump's hard-core fan base that doesn't care about the truth --- that creepy, nutty, dysfunctional 15-25%. They aren't going away any time soon. Unfortunately.

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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by Greta » June 28th, 2017, 12:58 am

Fan of Science wrote:What mainly concerns me is the existence of Trump's hard-core fan base that doesn't care about the truth --- that creepy, nutty, dysfunctional 15-25%. They aren't going away any time soon. Unfortunately.
There was much fuss made about Clinton's "deplorables" but the issue was just arrogantly careless broad-brush use of language. What she should have spoken about in hindsight is about people who were impervious to reason, the very thing that has allowed societies to thrive.

The accusation by the disgruntled is that they tried being reasonable and were simply taken advantage of, which is true. However, the remedy is not to treat one of the worst of those exploiters as a saviour. I think the rationale is that "it takes a thief to catch a thief", but only if that thief isn't more interested in stripping the environmental protection functions that slowed his developments down. I see no evidence that he cares about anyone but himself, in which case why not just elect any tycoon, since they are all self-interested? Surely we can all do better.

An issue is that expertise is no longer respected. A loud mouthed keyboard warrior who's done some Googling can be thought to be more credible by many readers than experts who have passionately studied and worked in a field for a lifetime. How can this be justified? Through refusal to be reasonable, to posit reasonableness and compromise as surrender and weakness. To close one's eyes to inconvenient facts.

Consider the rise in flat Earth societies, Moon landing conspiracies and anti-evolution activism. The abandonment of logic and reason is a regression to earlier, more savage times and seemingly the kind of transformation of societal mindsets that occurs as they move to a war footing. Reason has no place in warfare. That's where animal within is released somewhat from its cage.

I doubt I'm the only one finding Orwell's Winston and Julia easy to relate to of late. Is this how Germans, Japanese and Italians felt last century, helplessly watching their countryfolk increasingly abandon reason as nationalistic passions were stoked?

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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by Burning ghost » June 28th, 2017, 4:14 am

Trump doesn't matter. He is hardly capable of producing massive changes because the authorities of the US do the same old **** regardless of the figurehead.

It saddens me that people thing their world is terrible without any idea or concern for the vast majority of the human population. Turning a blind eye in face of hideous acts of genocide and murder, of corruption, of arms sales and money laundering is a disgrace. The truly moral human would do one of two things. Takes up arms and over throw the government, refuse to pay taxes or abandon their homeland to avoid feeding the system they despise (so they say!)

If Obama was still in charge the US would still be terrorizing foreign regimes and assassinating people, as well as selling arms and laundering money. This is not to mention a outrageously polarized media that present both left and right in the most disgusting guise.

The internet will save humanity if people start caring enough to question their own questions. I am just waiting for all out war and looking hopefully toward the possibility of rebuilding a better way of living afterward. The plus is I don't see civilization completely collapsing. The global economy needs to be addressed and greater equality needs to happen. Capitialism has done its job and equality has been spread, it is now teetering on the edge and we either have to reassess the economic situation or we'll all plummet over the edge not the human population living below the poverty line.

The simple truth is western worlds don't know what economic crisis is or what poverty is. What is referred to in western countries as "poverty" and "economic crisis" is referred to as paradise in African nations and Central American nations. Don't forget they are in the positions they are in because of western actions. Should we be guilty? No, not really. not if we actively do something about it rather than blame others.

Libya? Prime example. We now know what happened and why. At least I do. Do you? What narrative do you follow? Do you think Gaddafi was an evil man? Do you think he exploited his people? Do the research. The west **** him over and destroyed the country on purpose. I say "the west", yet the truth is it is not every westerner who voted for it to happen. The French, US and British governments lied about him. They fleeced him and lied to him for profit and helped decrease political stability.

Not sure who said it but government should fear the people. People should fear the government when they try to hide the truth and destroy their freedom. The balance between the two must be held to account by all.

I think the sorry truth is the US and Europe are done. I think I am going to move to South America within the next few years. I just hope the break up of the US is democratic rather than revolutionary. Although I see the need for greater global institutions, this is only possible with more solid and independent local governing bodies IMO.

Also take some time to look into the history of nations and nationality. It is a very recent phenomena. National identity was enforced as a means to get people to fight wars not to live in harmony. History tells us a lot about our situation if you care to look ;)
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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by Fan of Science » June 28th, 2017, 11:29 am

During the eight years Obama was in office, in poll after poll, roughly 15%-25% of those answering thought Obama was the anti-Christ. That's insane. We now have a situation where the president of the USA not only makes racist remarks routinely, but he lies as a matter of course, and also promotes conspiracy theories from the White House. This is not a good state of affairs. More people are being rude and openly expressing racism and anti-Semitism as well as hatred against Muslims. More and more the conspiracy-theorists think that their delusional beliefs are now mainstream. They are not; they are still a minority, and a disliked one at that, but the problem is that the current president is one of them. Trump gives a "validation" to the insane camp, and this makes Trump dangerous.

Also, Trump is attacking freedom of speech, seeking to undue the defamation laws, making flag-burning a crime, he aggressively targets private individual citizens for speaking out, as well as engaging in an ongoing war against the press and mainstream media. Not to mention that the truth does not matter to Trump and his hard-core supporters, and if one can no longer speak truth to power, then freedom of speech does little to protect us from tyranny.

For the first time in my life, I no longer feel at home in America. I don't even consider it safe here any longer. Trump is a danger. He is a symbol of validation for the crazies among us.

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Re: Trump, the rise of the inadequate, work of Congress

Post by Greta » June 28th, 2017, 7:42 pm

Watching from afar in Australia, I have to say the election and retention of Trump boggles my mind. I still can't see how a financial conflict of interest can be resolved by putting the money in trust with one's offspring. That level of conflict would not be tolerated in a junior public servant, yet it's somehow tolerated in a national leader.

The lack of accountability for obvious lies in politics is not good, as you note. Almost everything Trump says fails fact checks, but he then just dismisses fact checkers as biased and his supporters are fine with it. I don't think Trump is another Hitler, and it's not him that's the worry but his weirdly feral support base. When people no longer respond to reason then they are dangerous. Here's the kicker - civilised people completely misread what's happening, thinking that those who are unreasonable are naive. They have it the wrong way around. In truth, it they who are being taken for a ride.

Being unreasonable is a deliberate and strategic move to gain power within soft structures that would otherwise control them. All you need do is not worry about your reputation and be capable in self defence. Being unreasonable brings the spotlight to you. It brings control - the power of "no". If you have enough unreasonable supporters, all appearing to be free and happy breaking the old taboos based on courtesy and consideration, then the disaffected will find that attractive. "Yeah, I'm in. F the system!" [sic]

Just as in prison no one dares bother the "mad dog" inmate, the fear of wildness by Trump's and Sanders's supporters intimidates ordinary people. Terrorists/guerilla fighters have been using this method basically for as long as humanity has been around. We have cycles where the forces of organisation are in control and then for a while chaos starts to return until organisation resumes. This is why revolutions always end up installing people who do the same as the deposed; the organisation that resumes control is basically the same organisation as that which was overthrown with some variant details. There is only one way to organise a society - in a hierarchy where those who make the decisions get the best stuff. There's never been any other kind of society. People think that smashing the system will bring greater equality but it never has done before. System after system has reached its use-by date and been replaced until we have the systems of today.

Trump's supporters think that he will reduce the wealth gap. Trump is one of the billionaires least inclined towards philanthropy, and I wonder if there been any signs at all that the man is even remotely interested in reducing inequality? What I am seeing is a man, like Tony Abbott here, who carries on like a yahoo and that resonates with unfashionable yahoo or wannabe-yahoo men who then attribute DT with all the qualities they hope for in a leader while remaining blinkered to his reality as a tycoon shark.

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