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How to define antisemitism

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Newme
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Newme » August 23rd, 2018, 10:11 am

There are real practicing Jews and there are pretend Jews who are nonethnic and nonreligious but just hijacking the name “Jew” so whatever evil they do, they are beyond reproach under the politically correct umbrella of “anti-semitism.”

https://youtu.be/zA5is7IcEqA

Fooloso4
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Fooloso4 » August 23rd, 2018, 12:15 pm

Newme:
There are real practicing Jews and there are pretend Jews who are nonethnic and nonreligious but just hijacking the name “Jew” so whatever evil they do, they are beyond reproach under the politically correct umbrella of “anti-semitism.”
As I explained in an earlier post, not all “real” Jews are Zionists.

Most Jews are Jewish by birth. The idea that they somehow “hijacked” the name is ludicrous.

The term “anti-semitism” was in use long before “political correctness”. Christian hatred of Jews is almost as old as Christianity itself. Attempting to trivialize this as as a matter of “political correctness” is at best ignorance and at worst a thinly veiled justification for mistrust and hatred.

The video is by RT. There is a note underneath it that says that RT is funded in whole or in part by the Russian government and links to wikipedia. Clicking on the link - RT was formerly Russia Today. It is a propaganda machine run by the Russian government.

Neturei Karta, the group protesting, is regarded as an extremist fringe group. They have no official membership numbers. The Jewish Virtual Library estimates their numbers at about 5,000 worldwide, but their numbers is the U.S. are estimated to be around 100. The carefully edited video makes it appear as though this is a large protest, but if you look carefully it is not.

Newme, have you noticed the pattern yet or are you already well aware of it? You repeatedly link to sources without credibility. Which leads me to ask once again whether you are just gullible or deliberately trying to mislead?

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by ThomasHobbes » August 23rd, 2018, 5:11 pm

Steve3007 wrote:
August 10th, 2018, 2:34 pm
Since you simply posted a series of absurd Daily Mail and Sun front pages and claimed "I could do this all day" that apparently was your idea of an argument.

A large number of your posts are argument-free insults ("you're an idiot", "you're a fool" etc). Polemic is, apparently: "a strong verbal or written attack on someone or something."
The question was not about what I was posting, but about your polemic response. You were dismissive of what is basically a no brainer. You were in fact dismissive of a position you eventually took.
Maybe being less dismissive in future could save you some time?

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Newme
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Newme » August 25th, 2018, 3:06 pm

Fooloso,
How many people do you know are pure bred anything???
I was born here in America - so can I get Native American status?
If I decide I’m Jewish - but don’t practice Judaism & never lived in Israel - can I still claim to be Jewish?

[The same non-credible already posted RT link deleted]

Image

[deleted link]

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Greta
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Greta » August 25th, 2018, 6:06 pm

Gee, you really don't like Jews, do you, Newme? Did you have painful incidents with Jewish people when you were young?

It amazes me how anyone can post propaganda against a group of people. It is such an unthinkingly retrograde thing to do.

It seems to me that Israel is being about as brutal as others in the region. The problem with judging brutality in war torn areas is that the standards are not the same as relative peacetime in civil society. Look at Saddam's atrocities. It turns out that that was how he prevented the country from falling into chaos as it has done now. Most, if not all, Iraqis' lives are now worse for his removal. Iraqi women, especially, are now worse off.

Yes, Israeli governments have been brutal, but what they have done has effectively been sanctioned by the US, especially factions in the Republican Party., eg. the Jerusalem decision. The US could drastically slow the bloodshed quickly by withholding supply to Israel until settlers are stopped and prevented from further incursions. However, they don't. Many US companies also "profit from the conflict in the Middle East" but the other ME countries are hardly innocent lambs either.

If you want to identify the bad guys in the world it helps if you can find the good guys, and I'll be damned if I can see any anywhere on the global stage.

All I see are a lot of self interested players making their own mistakes in their own way, some of which will doom their societies because considerable robustness will be needed in societal systems to cope with increasing environmental challenges in a fast changing climate.

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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Fooloso4 » August 25th, 2018, 6:56 pm

Newme:
How many people do you know are pure bred anything???
Pure bred? People are not farm animals or show dogs. We do, however, here a lot about the purity of the races from white supremacists and Neo-Nazis.
I was born here in America - so can I get Native American status?
Simply by being born in America? No. But I think you already knew that.
If I decide I’m Jewish - but don’t practice Judaism & never lived in Israel - can I still claim to be Jewish?
Sure, you can claim that. You already claim lots of other things that are not true. Most American Jews never lived in Israel. Many identify as cultural Jews. No different than many Christians who rarely if ever go to church and celebrate the holidays by buying presents and chocolate Easter eggs.

As to the genetic nonsense: Once again we see a disregard for facts and research that with each instance it looks to be more and more deliberate.

The Ashkenazi-Khazar (not “Kazar”) theories have met with skepticism or are rejected by most scholars today. In addition it has been proven to be false genetically:
Plausible at the time [of the publication of The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler], the Khazar-origin premise has crumbled under the onslaught of modern molecular genetics. The latest volley: a study published this week in Nature Communications. (https://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2013/12/ ... atrimony/)
The people of Israel, the religion not the state, are those who believe in the God of the patriarchs. The name is taken from the patriarch Jacob who was named Israel. There is no genetic qualification for being a Jew.

The need for a Jewish homeland was made painfully evident following the Holocaust, but the dream of a homeland, the return to Zion, is an ancient theme in the Jewish religion. It can thus be shared by all Jews regardless of their genetic makeup.

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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Steve3007 » August 26th, 2018, 5:10 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:The question was not about what I was posting, but about your polemic response. You were dismissive of what is basically a no brainer. You were in fact dismissive of a position you eventually took.
No, I am not dismissive of a position I eventually took. You have a habit of not properly reading posts before responding to them, which leads you to misunderstand them, sometimes believing that simple sentences say the opposite of what they have actually said.

viewtopic.php?p=317145#p317145

To Newme:
ThomasHobbes wrote:Maybe you are too stupid to read properly.
You said it.

In this case, I disagreed with you that the attacks on the Labour Party leadership are entirely: "mass hysteria in this case a set of lies offered to us by a media which is comprised of right wingers." I accepted that the right-wing press is (obviously) anti-Corbyn but I did not, and do not, think it is just about Corbyn's position on the political spectrum and it is not just attacks by the right-wing press. I expressed scepticism that your series of posts that simply quoted self-evidently stupid headlines from right-wing tabloids constitutes an argument, here:
Steve3007 wrote:ThomasHobbes:

OK, so in your last few posts you established that The Sun and The Daily Mail are not supporters of the Labour Party and are particularly not supporters of Corbyn, and they are not shy about displaying their editorial line in various colourful ways.

This is not exactly headline news!

Your "argument" seems to be: "The Sun and The Daily Mail are anti-Corbyn. Therefore all accusations of antisemitism in the Labour leadership from any source, whether inside the Labour party or outside, is part of a right-wing British Establishment Jewish conspiracy."

Have I paraphrased you correctly?
Your (fairly typical) response:
ThomasHobbes wrote:No you have not; you are a **** wit.
constituted even less of an argument.

Here's what I did actually conclude:
Steve3007 wrote:I personally don't think that speech by Gerald Kaufman was antisemitic and I therefore support the Labour Party NEC in not adopting all of the supposed examples of antisemitism. But I also don't think it's just the right wing media that has created this. It's not as easy as that. The many members of the Labour Party itself who are upset about this are not The Right Wing Media.
I also concluded that it is as much about the need for the press to keep a good, lucrative story going as it is about their political motivations.

So, next time you respond, particularly if you are going to use your trademark ad hominem remarks, try reading the posts on which you're commenting first.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by ThomasHobbes » August 26th, 2018, 6:02 am

Steve3007 wrote:
August 26th, 2018, 5:10 am
ThomasHobbes wrote:The question was not about what I was posting, but about your polemic response. You were dismissive of what is basically a no brainer. You were in fact dismissive of a position you eventually took.
No, I am not dismissive of a position I eventually took. You have a habit of not properly reading posts before responding to them, which leads you to misunderstand them, sometimes believing that simple sentences say the opposite of what they have actually said.

I said "you were".. not you are.

Karpel Tunnel
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Karpel Tunnel » August 26th, 2018, 6:31 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 26th, 2018, 6:02 am
Steve3007 wrote:
August 26th, 2018, 5:10 am


No, I am not dismissive of a position I eventually took. You have a habit of not properly reading posts before responding to them, which leads you to misunderstand them, sometimes believing that simple sentences say the opposite of what they have actually said.

I said "you were".. not you are.
Seriously, that's all you're going to focus on in that post?
Not for example the parts were you need to apologize?

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by ThomasHobbes » August 26th, 2018, 6:47 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
August 26th, 2018, 6:31 am
ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 26th, 2018, 6:02 am



I said "you were".. not you are.
Seriously, that's all you're going to focus on in that post?
Not for example the parts were you need to apologize?
This is all off topic, so no.

Number2018
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Number2018 » September 7th, 2018, 8:18 am

Are there any opinions about this article?
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1296 ... tisemitism

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Newme
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Newme » October 23rd, 2018, 11:17 am

Unbelievable that such an ignorant display lack of critical thinking skills is so prevalent on a philosophy forum. Don’t you guys think and research multiple perspectives before you regurgitate whatever’s popular? It’s ironic that most who post here are anti-religious and yet have been unknowingly deceived by decades of Scofield biblical Zionist biased interpretations, by blindly supporting anything Jewish - without even knowing what Jewish actually means! To be considered authenticity Jewish - one’s mother, grandmother and up the Jewish line, must be from Israel and practicing Judaism.

US State Passes Law Defining Any Criticism of Israel as ‘Anti-Semitic’ Just As They Kill 60 Civilians
https://thefreethoughtproject.com/israe ... i-semitic/
“The news that Israel killed more than 60 Palestinians on Monday alone, has sparked criticism from Americans who are frustrated with the United States’ failure to hold one of its closest allies accountable for the human rights violations it is committing—and individuals in one state will soon be labeled as “anti-Semitic” for openly voicing their opinion.”

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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Fooloso4 » October 23rd, 2018, 12:40 pm

Newme:
Unbelievable that such an ignorant display lack of critical thinking skills is so prevalent on a philosophy forum.
This coming from the person who has repeatedly cited discredited sources and has refused to acknowledge or even address this fact!
It’s ironic that most who post here are anti-religious and yet have been unknowingly deceived by decades of Scofield biblical Zionist biased interpretations, by blindly supporting anything Jewish - without even knowing what Jewish actually means!
It is evident that you do not understand what is at issue. There are several of us here who have spoken out against the Christian Fundamentalists support of Zionism. It is not a matter of supporting “anything Jewish” it is all about Armageddon, which is fundamentally anti-Jewish. The Jews will be on the losing side, clearly labelled by John as the enemy. But there can be no Armageddon unless Jerusalem is the Jewish capital. And so, Christian Fundamentalists become Zionists.

Antisemitism is a real and growing problem. I cannot comment on the specifics of the law - tellingly, you have not provided them or the reasons and arguments in favor of its enactment. The two issues, antisemitism and Zionism have become entangled. While some are deft at disentangling them, the fact is, there are antisemites who hide behind anti-Zionism, using the latter as cover to promote the former.

There is another important distinction at issue: the existence of a Jewish state and the actions of its leaders. One should be able to criticize the latter without this necessarily entailing the abolition of the former. There are three variables here and they can be found in any negative or positive combination: Judaism, Zionism, and state action. Failure to make these distinctions has caused a great deal of confusion. Whatever one’s position is those who fail to make these distinctions are part of the problem
To be considered authenticity Jewish - one’s mother, grandmother and up the Jewish line, must be from Israel and practicing Judaism.
This is simply not true. Many Jewish sects accept conversion to Judaism. I have pointed this out before but you ignore it. Why?

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Newme
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Newme » November 10th, 2018, 9:32 pm

Fooloso,
What is required for someone to officially convert to orthodox Judaism?
Who do you know that has done so and what circumstances led up to it?

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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Fooloso4 » November 11th, 2018, 11:16 am

If you wish to convert to Orthodox Judaism talk to an orthodox rabbi. If you are just looking for information see the article on convention at myjewishlearng.com.

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