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Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

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Georgeanna
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Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by Georgeanna » August 5th, 2018, 5:11 am

Other than voting at elections, writing letters or ranting online, protests are the most visible way to show disapproval of particular political policies.
This is how some now take their philosophy, or ideology, to the streets.

Who are those protesters and what values do they show ?

Brave freedom fighters carrying weapons.
Systematic, peaceful, nonviolent campaigners seeking to persuade.
Self expression restricted by governmental policy - the need for control and permits.
And the counter-protests permitted as a balance. To give everyone a voice.

But who hears the real message when 2 groups clash and riot police step in ?

Here's what I got today:

Portland far-right rally.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lence-rise

'Police charge counterprotestors with batons drawn'.
In riot gear and using stun grenades and pepper spray. For most part they seemed to have done their job. However, it only takes one bottle thrown by someone on whichever side for mayhem to ensue. It could have been worse.

Never heard of Patriot Prayer but now I have. From:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Prayer

'According to the BBC, Patriot Prayer have been connected to the alt-right as well as other far-right groups.[22] Gibson denies this, saying the group is neither white nationalist nor alt-right and that they support "freedom, love and peace".[28] The group's stated aim is support of the First Amendment, free speech and to "liberate the conservatives on the West Coast".[20]'

They are pro-Trump and like him are all Peace and Love, man.
Nobel Peace Prize on its way.
Yeah, right. I think we got the message. Actions speak louder than words.

The voice of reason, the use of critical thinking - seems to be of no avail in this increasingly unstable world.
Trump plays to his crowd with great effect. It's showmanship.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/ ... fies-media

For me, it is sick and ugly. I am also concerned about the effects of reversal of policies and laws which have global implications.
We seem to be speeding to a tipping point where if action is not taken, then it will indeed be a survival of the fittest. We are animals.

The powerful, rich elite, politicians and certain media brainwashing the less intelligent into states of fear and hatred.
And in the meantime, the planet goes down in flames.

There, that was another armchair rant.
Can any philosopher show me the way forward ?

Georgeanna
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Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by Georgeanna » August 5th, 2018, 8:50 am

Street philosophy.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Freedom to ransack, yay. Let's have at them...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -in-london

' Michael Bradley, from Stand up to Racism, said: “Luckily no one was hurt this time, but this is a sinister development that indicates the growing confidence of the far right who feel they can attack a bookshop in central London in broad daylight.

“Attacking a bookshop also exposes their claims to be defenders of free speech as hollow.”

No ****, Sherlock.
Time to upstage the bastards.

Georgeanna
Posts: 423
Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by Georgeanna » August 5th, 2018, 9:16 am

Really? I'm allowed to write bastards but not ****.

All natural home-grown products. What's the world coming to...
:roll:

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chewybrian
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Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by chewybrian » August 5th, 2018, 9:44 am

Georgeanna wrote:
August 5th, 2018, 5:11 am
For me, it is sick and ugly. I am also concerned about the effects of reversal of policies and laws which have global implications.
We seem to be speeding to a tipping point where if action is not taken, then it will indeed be a survival of the fittest. We are animals.

The powerful, rich elite, politicians and certain media brainwashing the less intelligent into states of fear and hatred.
And in the meantime, the planet goes down in flames.
Would you have similar feelings about something like "Occupy Wall Street"? Is it sick and ugly only if it occurs in the name of policies with which you disagree?

I think both sides have important issues to address, but they could both learn a lot from Dr. King about how best to address them. Lose the bandannas and the rocks and guns and 'missiles' if you expect anyone to respect your opinion. Are you there to spread hate or work for progress?

Georgeanna
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Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by Georgeanna » August 5th, 2018, 11:11 am

The 'it' I was referring to was the sorry and sad spectacle of a powerful, narcissistic President. His style of showmanship, his use of emotive language inciting hatred during rallies is ugly and sick.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/ ... fies-media

I would feel the same if any Occupy protestor used a platform in similar fashion. I respect any opinion if it can be justified, whether or not I agree with the head gear.

I am not here to spread hate but exchange ideas. Sometimes the only way to receive attention is to swear a little.
Sad. But true.

Dachshund
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Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by Dachshund » August 6th, 2018, 7:53 am

There is something you need to understand, Georganna, and that is the election of Donald Trump as President of the united States signalled the death of the secular multiculturalism and political correctness that had been two of the great shibboleths of left-leaning progressive liberalism in America.

All across the US, the wheels are now falling off the liberal-progressive doctrine of State multiculturalism and open season has been declared on the politically correct movement.

YAAAAAAAAAAY !!!!!

As far as I am concerned this is truly wonderful news, and the Trump Presidency couldn't have come soon enough !!

Welcome, Georgeanna, to what scholars are now calling the dawn of a new age of "post - secular" society in the West; and if you (and the pea-brains who write "The Guardian" newspaper) don't like it, well that's just "tough titty" darling, because it looks VERY much like the new order is indeed here to stay, and THANK GOD for that !!!

YAAAAAAAAAAY !!! I say, "Hail to the Chief (Trump)", and more power to the American people who put him in the White House !!

Kindest Regards

Dachshund

Steve3007
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Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by Steve3007 » August 6th, 2018, 8:09 am

Georgeanna,

I'd never heard of this group before you mentioned them, so I briefly googled them. My brief initial research, trying to separate out what other people say about them from what their founder declares as their raison d'etre, suggests nothing harmful. They are a right-wing group who wishes to use their right to freedom of speech to peacefully express their political views.

What's wrong with that?

Georgeanna
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Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by Georgeanna » August 6th, 2018, 8:14 am

Steve3007 wrote:
August 6th, 2018, 8:09 am
Georgeanna,

I'd never heard of this group before you mentioned them, so I briefly googled them. My brief initial research, trying to separate out what other people say about them from what their founder declares as their raison d'etre, suggests nothing harmful. They are a right-wing group who wishes to use their right to freedom of speech to peacefully express their political views.

What's wrong with that?
Nothing at all if it is as you say.
Can you provide links to your brief initial research, thanks.

Steve3007
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Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by Steve3007 » August 6th, 2018, 8:20 am

It was just the Wikipedia entry on them. As I say, it was very brief, so I'm perfectly prepared to be shown that my initial complacency is wrong.

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chewybrian
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Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by chewybrian » August 6th, 2018, 8:27 am

Georgeanna wrote:
August 5th, 2018, 11:11 am
The 'it' I was referring to was the sorry and sad spectacle of a powerful, narcissistic President. His style of showmanship, his use of emotive language inciting hatred during rallies is ugly and sick.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/ ... fies-media

I would feel the same if any Occupy protestor used a platform in similar fashion. I respect any opinion if it can be justified, whether or not I agree with the head gear.

I am not here to spread hate but exchange ideas. Sometimes the only way to receive attention is to swear a little.
Sad. But true.
It seems we both missed each other. I do actually agree with you that Trump's style is rather disgraceful. Some of his ideas have merit, though it seems his motives might be suspect, and he may be more accidentally correct than morally correct on those occasions where has appears right.

Regarding the bandanna, I could not care less how someone chooses to dress, but rather I was referring to the protesters in your links who were covering their faces as they threw rocks, both cowardly and ineffective methods of convincing people that your views have merit. And, when I said "you", I was talking to the protesters, not Georgeanna. I don't think you are here to spread hate, but I suspect they are.

People with a valid objection to the Prayer groups views are having their movement co-opted by the bandanna wearing anarchists who don't have anything but hate to bring, just as the Prayer group might be co-opted by the far right if they allowed it to happen. I'm not sure that they did from anything you pointed us to, though their views would appear stronger if they took on the non-violent methods of MLK, as I said, even as difficult as it is to remain stoic while other people are throwing insults and rocks at you.

Steve3007
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Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by Steve3007 » August 6th, 2018, 9:11 am

chewybrian wrote:People with a valid objection to the Prayer groups views are having their movement co-opted by the bandanna wearing anarchists who don't have anything but hate to bring, just as the Prayer group might be co-opted by the far right if they allowed it to happen. I'm not sure that they did from anything you pointed us to, though their views would appear stronger if they took on the non-violent methods of MLK, as I said, even as difficult as it is to remain stoic while other people are throwing insults and rocks at you.
I think this is a problem whenever people decide to express their political views in the form of protest marches, whatever part of the political spectrum they identify with. It may seem like an obvious point to make, but it's not really possible to have a nuanced debate about the pros and cons of an argument by shouting slogans at each other, although it's great fun at football matches.

But political rallies and protest marches are still the simplest way to try to visibly demonstrate to the world that a large number of people feel strongly about something. And you don't need very many people to take part, as a proportion of the total population of the country, to look like a very impressive turnout.

A million people in a protest march is vast. A million people voting for a candidate in a national election is nothing.

Georgeanna
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Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by Georgeanna » August 6th, 2018, 9:56 am

Steve3007 wrote:
August 6th, 2018, 8:20 am
It was just the Wikipedia entry on them. As I say, it was very brief, so I'm perfectly prepared to be shown that my initial complacency is wrong.
I don't know much more than you, having only discovered them yesterday.

My concerns are based on the way protests are organised so that 2 extreme activist groups are in the same vicinity with weapons.
This necessitating the deployment of riot police. A heady mixture.
It could be seen as the forerunner to civil war.

Perhaps, if extremists are looking to fight in public, then a special forum could be used. This would protect the public and give structure and some rules to abide by. But they don't want that.
They shout 'freedom of speech' to drown each other out.
What's the point of that?

The teams have catchy titles like 'Patriot Prayer'.
To establish what exactly - their rightness v the wrongness of others. Let the holy wars commence.

I googled the founder's name on wiki

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Gi ... _activist)
which led me to another reference, this :

https://psuvanguard.com/whatever-happen ... ot-prayer/


There is value in taking your philosophy and voice out into the world.
While we still can...without fear or threat of violence when simply disagreeing with someone can get you jailed or shot.

Steve3007
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Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by Steve3007 » August 6th, 2018, 10:21 am

Georgeanna wrote:Perhaps, if extremists are looking to fight in public, then a special forum could be used. This would protect the public and give structure and some rules to abide by.
Where I live that forum is called a football stadium.

Yes, people love to shout "freedom of speech" or "lock her up" or "you're not singing, you're not singing, you're not singing any more. You're not si-i-hing-ing an-y-more". I guess the challenge is judging when a relatively harmless outlet for our natural aggression and tribalism gets out of control.
There is value in taking your philosophy and voice out into the world.
While we still can...without fear or threat of violence when simply disagreeing with someone can get you jailed or shot.
I do think that one of the more negative trends in recent years is the increasingly polarised debate in which people seem less and less able to accept that they simply disagree with each other and instead feel the need to demonise and shout down their opponents. But these phases of polarisation have happened before. I think eventually the Trump style of ultra-confrontationalism as a negotiating tactic, and as a way of grabbing attention, will fade. We all know that TV formats (which is basically what it is) ebb and flow with the ratings. Fashions come and go. Sooner or later the public will flick channels to see what's on the other side.

Georgeanna
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Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Re: Patriot Prayer Protests: Street philosophy ?

Post by Georgeanna » August 6th, 2018, 10:56 am

Steve3007 wrote:
August 6th, 2018, 10:21 am
Georgeanna wrote:Perhaps, if extremists are looking to fight in public, then a special forum could be used. This would protect the public and give structure and some rules to abide by.
Where I live that forum is called a football stadium.

Yes, people love to shout "freedom of speech" or "lock her up" or "you're not singing, you're not singing, you're not singing any more. You're not si-i-hing-ing an-y-more". I guess the challenge is judging when a relatively harmless outlet for our natural aggression and tribalism gets out of control.
There is value in taking your philosophy and voice out into the world.
While we still can...without fear or threat of violence when simply disagreeing with someone can get you jailed or shot.
I do think that one of the more negative trends in recent years is the increasingly polarised debate in which people seem less and less able to accept that they simply disagree with each other and instead feel the need to demonise and shout down their opponents. But these phases of polarisation have happened before. I think eventually the Trump style of ultra-confrontationalism as a negotiating tactic, and as a way of grabbing attention, will fade. We all know that TV formats (which is basically what it is) ebb and flow with the ratings. Fashions come and go. Sooner or later the public will flick channels to see what's on the other side.
Some people can't accept disagreement because they see it as an attack or lack of respect. Education in early years might help.

Re Trump and tactics, I am not so sure it is a fashion which can be tuned out by switching channels. The danger lies in what happens swiftly as a result of policy and legal changes - it can set back progress years, if not more. The dark ages might be returning...

I worry that no matter who is in apparent charge, we have reached a tipping point beyond which even the rich elite have no power.

I feel that our planet is burning up due to a lack of care, foresight and imagination plus a view grounded in short term selfishness and fear.

There will be no winners. I have never felt this so strongly before.
Perhaps I do need to switch the channels, turn off the internet and the news...
Turn to a philosophy of calm, kick the sofa or attend a football match :)

Talking helps put things into perspective, thanks.

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