The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

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Noah33
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The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by Noah33 »

The wealthy nor the impoverished, cannot deceitfully take what is not theirs; as this idea is impossible. The idea of wanting is a mere faculty of desire. It is the desire for one to want what is beneficial. However, man is satisfied by mere material representations, as they satisfy his long term desires e.g,. Hunger, fixed desires, constant. These material representations in pure form, correspond to things that also benefit man materially, or are a means to satisfying us materially (excluding artificial representations e.g,. money). In the artificial forms of material representations or objects of purpose, material things like money are accounted for. Money is by no means something that bears with it immediate satisfaction. Money is rather a purposeless material object that only, when applied, leads to a purpose within purposelessness. Meaning that money satisfies an objective goal to find what is materially beneficial e.g,. food, protection, etc. However, money itself shares no objective purpose. This form of material deception, then often, affects the wealthy class and the impoverished class. The impoverished class, sees the wealthy class as 'stealing" from it, and is therefore oppressive. However the wealthy class sees the impoverished class with the exact same view. What both of these representative classes do not see, is the fact that money is merely a false material representation of value. Therefore, money in a pure material form, is valueless. From this proposition, we can then conclude that no class can oppress another class with the superficial existence of 'money' as a mere concept.
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by chewybrian »

Of course money has a purpose, which is to act as a medium of exchange to grease the wheels of commerce. The existence of money means I don't have to bring a load of chickens to the shoe store to trade for shoes, and hope the cobbler needs chickens. The cobbler does not need to set a price for shoes in terms of each commodity he is willing to accept in trade, and then re-trade the excess of certain goods he's received in trade in order to get to the balance he really desires. And I don't have to do the same with the chickens. I can sell my chickens to the Colonel for cash and take the money to the shoe store to buy shoes.

Money has no intrinsic value, but it does have a purpose. But, how does a lack of intrinsic value for money lead to the conclusion that the classes can not take from each other through unfair tax codes or other laws that favor one over the other? This should not be the purpose of government, or political parties, of course. But, isn't it obvious that this is what Washington is all about right now?
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Noah33 wrote: August 13th, 2018, 1:05 am The wealthy nor the impoverished, cannot deceitfully take what is not theirs;
All property is theft.
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by LuckyR »

Noah33 wrote: August 13th, 2018, 1:05 am The wealthy nor the impoverished, cannot deceitfully take what is not theirs; as this idea is impossible. The idea of wanting is a mere faculty of desire. It is the desire for one to want what is beneficial. However, man is satisfied by mere material representations, as they satisfy his long term desires e.g,. Hunger, fixed desires, constant. These material representations in pure form, correspond to things that also benefit man materially, or are a means to satisfying us materially (excluding artificial representations e.g,. money). In the artificial forms of material representations or objects of purpose, material things like money are accounted for. Money is by no means something that bears with it immediate satisfaction. Money is rather a purposeless material object that only, when applied, leads to a purpose within purposelessness. Meaning that money satisfies an objective goal to find what is materially beneficial e.g,. food, protection, etc. However, money itself shares no objective purpose. This form of material deception, then often, affects the wealthy class and the impoverished class. The impoverished class, sees the wealthy class as 'stealing" from it, and is therefore oppressive. However the wealthy class sees the impoverished class with the exact same view. What both of these representative classes do not see, is the fact that money is merely a false material representation of value. Therefore, money in a pure material form, is valueless. From this proposition, we can then conclude that no class can oppress another class with the superficial existence of 'money' as a mere concept.
Not if the system is set up correctly.
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by Eduk »

Well that bloke I hired to break your legs didn't seem to care about the fact that money has no value.
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Noah33
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by Noah33 »

Part of this piece illustrates how money satisfies immediate material satisfaction, or for lack of a better word, constructs the mere worth of money as a material representation which leads to truly valuable things. However, the meaning is that money is merely material, and thus generates no true form of proper satisfaction i.e,. fixed desires. Money made lead to the abundance of necessity for man's existence e.g,. food, gratification, etc. However, the aforementioned statement recognizes that money is only material, and therefore, in itself generates no true desire for man.
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by Hereandnow »

Money has exchange value, Noah33. That is where it gets its worth. I mean, are you kidding?
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by Alias »

Noah33 wrote: August 13th, 2018, 1:05 am Therefore, money in a pure material form, is valueless. From this proposition, we can then conclude that no class can oppress another class with the superficial existence of 'money' as a mere concept.
Not with the superficial existence of money, no. With the service that armed forces will perform for money, you can oppress anybody. With the services that government officials are willing to render in exchange for money, you can oppress whole nations. With the control of production and distribution that can be achieved with money, you can oppress the world.
Without those things, you can't.
So I guess you're half right.
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by Eduk »

Out of interest Alias do you think my previous post is making the same point as yours?
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by Karpel Tunnel »

So it would be impossible for say a neo con extremely wealthy administration to concoct reasons to go to war with some Mideast dictator, then radically privitize the military allowing for them to transfer unbelievable TAX PAYER SUMS to corporations they have connections with and have and will again make money from, all the while causing the death, maiming and PTSD of primarily poor people who make up the soldiers.

That cannot happen.

There must be a multiverse because it can in mine.
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by Eduk »

Karpel. Please do tell me your sources for all this information.
Personally I was not privy to high level security discussions regarding the Iraq war. I have basically no idea why the UK went to war. Saddam Hussein was absolutely a dictator though, as to whether the world is better off with or without him I'm not in a position to say. It sounds horribly complex to me, I doubt it is clear cut and obvious. I am just not educated in the subject enough to know, and I know of no reputable source.
The military has had private elements for ever, hasn't it? Where are your sources regarding this obvious extreme corruption? Should there be private elements in the military? How much should they be paid? It sounds like another extremely complex issue. Again not black and white. Again I do not know enough to pass judgement and I'd love to know your sources.
I doubt those who enlist in the army would be appreciate the connotations of being poor, uneducated and desperate. Have you talked to many people in the army? In my experience many of them seem quite capable individuals, certainly I do not regard them as helpless children unable to tell right from wrong whom I must protect. If anything it's the other way around.
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by Alias »

Eduk wrote: September 6th, 2018, 3:46 am Out of interest Alias do you think my previous post is making the same point as yours?
I assumed it was on the same track, but did not connect exchange value to oppression.
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by Alias »

Noah33 wrote: August 15th, 2018, 12:12 am Part of this piece illustrates how money satisfies immediate material satisfaction, or for lack of a better word, constructs the mere worth of money as a material representation which leads to truly valuable things. However, the meaning is that money is merely material, and thus generates no true form of proper satisfaction i.e,. fixed desires. Money made lead to the abundance of necessity for man's existence e.g,. food, gratification, etc. However, the aforementioned statement recognizes that money is only material, and therefore, in itself generates no true desire for man.
without which, man is in no condition to appreciate those unnamed "truly valuable things" - even if he had such "true desires".
Of course, if he does have those, the impoverished can die lot younger and satisfy them in the afterlife a lot sooner, than the rich.
So, it's all good.
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by Hereandnow »

But then, how DO the wealthy "take" from the impoverished? They do this by taking the labor of those who actually produce and sticking into their own pockets, then justifying this in the name of capitalism. Did anyone actually believe that outrageous personal wealth actually belongs to the "legal"possessor?

A sordid affair.
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Re: The conception of the wealthy "taking from the impoverished" is a ludicrous belief

Post by Burning ghost »

Hereandnow wrote: September 7th, 2018, 10:51 am But then, how DO the wealthy "take" from the impoverished? They do this by taking the labor of those who actually produce and sticking into their own pockets, then justifying this in the name of capitalism. Did anyone actually believe that outrageous personal wealth actually belongs to the "legal"possessor?

A sordid affair.
How about asking how the impoverished give nothing? If you’re willing to go to one extreme in one direction then why not the other?

Are all “impoverished people” noble and righteous. No more than all wealthy people are taking from impoverished - being wealthy yourself is your opinion of yourself so bad. It makes no sense to me how you present a position seemingly blind to teh double standards you’re expressing.
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