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Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

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Burning ghost
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Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Burning ghost » September 28th, 2018, 7:21 am

TH -
Moderate Corbyn is a move to the centre ground of politics from the extremism of Thatcher and Blair.
Sorry, this confuses me. What is “moderate” about Corbyn? Or did you mean that the distinct difference between the two main parties is now more distinct given that the Lib Dems where sold-out by the other parties insistence that changing the voting system would be surprising if you look at the proportion of votes in favour of the Liberals over the 90’s.

Personally I think it may worth considering that we’ve now got TWO distinct parties, one with conservative values and one with socialist ideas, because prior to this the Lib. Dems were for government reform, socialist ideas and conservative values too. Sadly they were screwed over. Paddy Ashdown was the last honest politician I’ve seen. If he’d lied about his parties policies, lihe the other two, he’d probably have gotten into number 10 - sadly they lied and then raised taxes just like he said he would and they tended to pretty much take on the role of what the Lib. Dems had stated.

Now the UK is possibly heading for something akin to the US “style of politics” if we’re not careful. I hope that the Lib Dems can get back on track and drop the whole Brexit nonsense as being the main pushing force behind their public policies.
AKA badgerjelly

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Burning ghost
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Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Burning ghost » September 28th, 2018, 7:23 am

Note: I am glad Corbyn got votes and I was telling everyone to vote for him, because I felt that the Conservatives would be too much of a menace if they could pretty much vote through any policy they wished - even though that is unlikley given that within every party there is a degree of division; it still worried me though.
AKA badgerjelly

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Greta
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Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Greta » September 28th, 2018, 7:40 am

Steve3007 wrote:
September 28th, 2018, 5:06 am
Greta wrote: Gina Reinhardt (Big Coal) is now a major shareholder of Fairfax so that puts paid to that opposition. The ABC is under constant attack by coal-affiliated politicians, and the board was stacked with conservatives, with regular deep funding cuts to reduce its ability to hold government accountable.
As I understand it, the ABC is similar in its supposed aspirations to the BBC - to be an editorially independent taxpayer/license-payer funded news outlet. Not being dependant on advertisers for revenue, they should in theory be free of commercial constraints creating biases or the need for sensational headlines to keep that advertising revenue. But, in practice, it's clearly very difficult to arrange this. In the case of the BBC I suppose its roots didn't even conform to those supposed aspirations in the first place. It was originally very much part of a British Empire establishment.

If the Wikipedia article about the ABC (the section about its independence and impartiality) is to be believed, then the proposition that it has a right-wing bias doesn't seem to be the whole story. Opinions seems to vary as to whether its bias is left or right wing. Similar to opinions about the BBC. Of course, I don't know whether the Wikipedia article is to be believed. I need to dig deeper.
I see the ABC as fairly centrist like the BBC, much more conservative than the Liberal Party claims but by today's measures more left than right leaning, perhaps because the right today seems to have lost interest in reason.

It would be difficult to support the right today without bias. Why bother listening to scientist opinions? They only spend their lives studying their subjects. Better to listen to billionaires prepared to donate to the party and then think of spurious justifications for the public to swallow.

Eduk
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Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Eduk » September 28th, 2018, 8:43 am

I don't think I've particularly met any/many people who would be best described as liberal or conservative. I've met plenty of people with extremely strong liberal/conservative views, but I've always seen that as a fashion statement rather anything inherent to their character or conscious. Certainly I have never met anyone with a coherent argument for their political affiliation. Or to be clear there are semi coherent reasons, as in I'm racist so I'll vote to leave the EU, but those reasons don't make sense and are rarely shared in such a straightforward manner.
When Tony Blair first took power with the Labour party my friends supported labour with as much sense and depth of reason as I support Liverpool (as in no sense or depth). Now many people hate him with as much sense and depth as Manchester United supporters hate Liverpool (as in no sense or depth).
Personally I would love to see some sources for anyone's strong beliefs other than just writing down opinion. It's my opinion that Tony Blair is in fact the exact centre of the universe. I have no reason to believe this. Or any evidence. Can anyone prove me wrong?
Unknown means unknown.

Steve3007
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Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Steve3007 » September 28th, 2018, 9:17 am

As measured against a Blairocentric reference frame, with respect to which Tony Blair is stationary, the whole universe does indeed revolve around/move relative to Tony Blair. But it wouldn't be an inertial reference frame, unless Tony Blair is in free fall. Measured against that reference frame, Jeremy Corbyn is moving and Scott Morrison is upside down (and moving). I think Donald Trump is sideways. But none of this suggests anything about what either Jeremy, Scott or Donald are doing with respect to any absolute reference frame that might exist.

Sorry, I think I'm getting my topics mixed up.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by ThomasHobbes » September 28th, 2018, 1:04 pm

Eduk wrote:
September 28th, 2018, 8:43 am
I don't think I've particularly met any/many people who would be best described as liberal or conservative. I've met plenty of people with extremely strong liberal/conservative views, but I've always seen that as a fashion statement rather anything inherent to their character or conscious. Certainly I have never met anyone with a coherent argument for their political affiliation. Or to be clear there are semi coherent reasons, as in I'm racist so I'll vote to leave the EU, but those reasons don't make sense and are rarely shared in such a straightforward manner.
When Tony Blair first took power with the Labour party my friends supported labour with as much sense and depth of reason as I support Liverpool (as in no sense or depth). Now many people hate him with as much sense and depth as Manchester United supporters hate Liverpool (as in no sense or depth).
Personally I would love to see some sources for anyone's strong beliefs other than just writing down opinion. It's my opinion that Tony Blair is in fact the exact centre of the universe. I have no reason to believe this. Or any evidence. Can anyone prove me wrong?
Your belief has neither sense nor depth.
People with sense and a great deal of depth have very good reasons to hate Blair.
But a football supporter is always an idiot in every case.

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Burning ghost
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Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Burning ghost » September 28th, 2018, 1:07 pm

TH -

I had no idea you classed football supporters as being on your intellectual level :P
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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by ThomasHobbes » September 28th, 2018, 1:10 pm

Burning ghost wrote:
September 28th, 2018, 1:07 pm
TH -

I had no idea you classed football supporters as being on your intellectual level :P
Given your absurd comments about the Liberals I do not think you have much credibility to judge idiocy.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by ThomasHobbes » September 28th, 2018, 2:11 pm

Burning ghost wrote:
September 28th, 2018, 1:07 pm
And calling me a Troll in a PM is a sneaky and childish bit of Trolling.

Eduk
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Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Eduk » September 28th, 2018, 3:06 pm

TH I know you know I know that you know how your response sounds. But knowing this I don't know why you proceed. It feels like so many people on this forum are just crying out for help. Surely there is a better way though? I don't want to seem unsympathetic, I would genuinely like to help you if I could.
Unknown means unknown.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by ThomasHobbes » September 28th, 2018, 3:52 pm

Eduk wrote:
September 28th, 2018, 3:06 pm
TH I know you know I know that you know how your response sounds. But knowing this I don't know why you proceed. It feels like so many people on this forum are just crying out for help. Surely there is a better way though? I don't want to seem unsympathetic, I would genuinely like to help you if I could.
If you need help I suggest the Samaritans.
https://www.samaritans.org

You have no need to suffer alone.

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