Don't vote (unless you want to)

Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
Eduk
Posts: 2088
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by Eduk » October 15th, 2018, 3:31 am

Pretty much everyone will tell you that it is very important to vote. I have never seen any evidence to back this statement up though.
Does anyone have any?
It suddenly occured to me that perhaps it would be better not to encourage people to vote (unless they wanted to). The reason being that hopefully those who are more informed will naturally vote regardless of being encouraged.
Unknown means unknown.

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 3088
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by LuckyR » October 18th, 2018, 1:46 am

The most practical reason to vote is to legitimately be able to complain about what the guy who beat your candidate is doing in office. Of course you can complain if you didn't vote, but you look like a dork by doing so.
"As usual... it depends."

User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by ThomasHobbes » October 18th, 2018, 3:00 am

Having someone worthy of your vote is important.

Most people seem to vote for the least worst, not the best.
Trump, Clinton: who gives a fu_k?

In a nation of 300 million, they offer THESE two? FFS

Eduk
Posts: 2088
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by Eduk » October 18th, 2018, 4:04 am

Who is 'they'?
Unknown means unknown.

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 3088
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by LuckyR » October 19th, 2018, 12:50 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
October 18th, 2018, 3:00 am
Having someone worthy of your vote is important.

Most people seem to vote for the least worst, not the best.
Trump, Clinton: who gives a fu_k?

In a nation of 300 million, they offer THESE two? FFS
Are you complaining that others lost in the primaries or that better candidates didn't choose to run?
"As usual... it depends."

User avatar
jlaugh
New Trial Member
Posts: 9
Joined: September 19th, 2018, 3:44 am

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by jlaugh » October 19th, 2018, 3:05 am

I agree. In fact, I'd so far as to recommend boycotting elections. Until the private sector cedes its control of the political class. Conversely, until the political class can act without the private sector's approval or mainly for the latter's benefit.

I'm aware this is a generalization, but as generalizations go, this is one I don't mind making.

User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by ThomasHobbes » October 19th, 2018, 3:44 am

LuckyR wrote:
October 19th, 2018, 12:50 am
ThomasHobbes wrote:
October 18th, 2018, 3:00 am
Having someone worthy of your vote is important.

Most people seem to vote for the least worst, not the best.
Trump, Clinton: who gives a fu_k?

In a nation of 300 million, they offer THESE two? FFS
Are you complaining that others lost in the primaries or that better candidates didn't choose to run?
I'm complaining the the political system is a plutocracy in which turds seem to rise to the top.
Are you pretending that the US system is not broken or that it is worthy of the term 'democracy'?

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 3088
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by LuckyR » October 20th, 2018, 3:27 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
October 19th, 2018, 3:44 am
LuckyR wrote:
October 19th, 2018, 12:50 am


Are you complaining that others lost in the primaries or that better candidates didn't choose to run?
I'm complaining the the political system is a plutocracy in which turds seem to rise to the top.
Are you pretending that the US system is not broken or that it is worthy of the term 'democracy'?
Well, since you dodged my question, all I am hearing is standard complaining without any specifics as to either the problem or any solutions.

At best I might infer that you are referring to the outsized influence of money on campaigning, though to be fair, you didn't say that.
"As usual... it depends."

User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by ThomasHobbes » October 20th, 2018, 7:20 am

LuckyR wrote:
October 20th, 2018, 3:27 am
ThomasHobbes wrote:
October 19th, 2018, 3:44 am


I'm complaining the the political system is a plutocracy in which turds seem to rise to the top.
Are you pretending that the US system is not broken or that it is worthy of the term 'democracy'?
Well, since you dodged my question, all I am hearing is standard complaining without any specifics as to either the problem or any solutions.

At best I might infer that you are referring to the outsized influence of money on campaigning, though to be fair, you didn't say that.
Yours was a stupid question. Not worthy of an answer being utterly rhetorical.

The problem with the US's so-called democracy goes much deeper than "influence of money on campaigning"

Fooloso4
Moderator
Posts: 3397
Joined: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by Fooloso4 » October 20th, 2018, 12:49 pm

Unless one thinks that every candidate is equally good or equally bad or that nothing they do if elected has consequences that are better or worse than what others who are running would do, then no matter the problems with the system or choices there is a reason to vote.

I do not think that by not encouraging people to vote only those who are well informed will vote. Those who are motivated by ignorance, fear, and hatred are likely to vote, and so, elections will be determined by them rather than the minority who put in the time and effort to become well informed.

User avatar
dscotese
New Trial Member
Posts: 4
Joined: October 20th, 2018, 4:41 pm

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by dscotese » October 20th, 2018, 8:50 pm

When I believe one person has better ideas than another, it won't matter to me whether or not the other fellow wins an election. I will follow the ideas of the people I respect. If others want to follow someone because they were "properly elected," that's their choice. I think it's a bad idea, and voting just encourages it.

The inspiration for my position comes from the article at [See policy on links. Instead of just linking describe what is said].

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 3088
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by LuckyR » October 21st, 2018, 3:53 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
October 20th, 2018, 7:20 am
LuckyR wrote:
October 20th, 2018, 3:27 am


Well, since you dodged my question, all I am hearing is standard complaining without any specifics as to either the problem or any solutions.

At best I might infer that you are referring to the outsized influence of money on campaigning, though to be fair, you didn't say that.
Yours was a stupid question. Not worthy of an answer being utterly rhetorical.

The problem with the US's so-called democracy goes much deeper than "influence of money on campaigning"
I am not interested in trying to nail your jello to the wall. Have a nice day.
"As usual... it depends."

Karpel Tunnel
Posts: 519
Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by Karpel Tunnel » October 21st, 2018, 6:37 am

Eduk wrote:
October 15th, 2018, 3:31 am
Pretty much everyone will tell you that it is very important to vote. I have never seen any evidence to back this statement up though.
Does anyone have any?
It suddenly occured to me that perhaps it would be better not to encourage people to vote (unless they wanted to). The reason being that hopefully those who are more informed will naturally vote regardless of being encouraged.
It would likely be those who are less cynical, more opinionated who would vote.

But I don't disagree. I always thought it was strange everyone though it was so important to vote then in other discussions painting the opposition as evil - before the last decade implying rather than openly saying it. It's important that you get out and vote even if its for that guy who is like Stalin/Hitler.

Further if there is a fundamental problem with the system, voting can be taken as a generalized approval. If very few vote, it is a sign that something is off. People do not feel it makes a difference or is worth their time. They could also be misinformed about this, and this justifies the get out and vote thing, but in general I think it means, myself, that there is a disconnect.

Karpel Tunnel
Posts: 519
Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by Karpel Tunnel » October 21st, 2018, 6:39 am

LuckyR wrote:
October 18th, 2018, 1:46 am
The most practical reason to vote is to legitimately be able to complain about what the guy who beat your candidate is doing in office. Of course you can complain if you didn't vote, but you look like a dork by doing so.
I suppose some people are going to think you are a dork, if they knew, but generally they would not. And, then, by this kind of logic you can't complain if your candidate won. And hopefull no one believes that. And if you believe that both candidates cannot possibly represent your interests given whom they are beholden to and who paid for them to get in office, you should be considered quite justified in complaining when the specific actions of the one who won start to unfold.

Karpel Tunnel
Posts: 519
Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am

Re: Don't vote (unless you want to)

Post by Karpel Tunnel » October 21st, 2018, 6:44 am

Eduk wrote:
October 18th, 2018, 4:04 am
Who is 'they'?
Wall Street, large corporations who finance campaigns which give the candidates access to the media absolutely and utterly necessary to even have the tiniest chance of getting voting into the presidency and in 99% of the cases the Senate. A local politician or a House of Rep. has a chance, though even here they are handicapped if the money thinks they are not OK. Normal citizens get to choose between approved candidates. And even if starting out a politician might challenge the money, by the time he or she is in, she would be heavily in their debt. Obama the from the right point of view monster from the far left, brought in Wall Street people to be his finance admin, despite how he was viewed and perhaps how he even viewed himself earlier in the campaign. The Democratic party broke its own rules to keep Sanders out.

They is the people with a lot of money. In the US there is an oligarchy. And this is not even getting into lobbying and its effects on elected official behavior.

Post Reply