Understanding Trump's Use of Language

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Steve3007
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

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Fooloso4 wrote:Trump’s opinion on global warming is of less concern than what he is doing to fatally weaken the E.P.A. The latest in a long series of moves is his nomination of Andrew Wheeler, a coal industry lobbyist, to head the E.P.A.
Now that the Democrats control the House of Representatives, is there any chance of them being either willing or able to limit the damage caused by this?
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Burning ghost
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

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The best to be done to help the climate situation is make people around the world more wealthy and give them access to better education. The rest is merely complaining about the symptom.

The US has been one of the biggest contributors to carbon emissions LONG before Trump. People want big cars and cheap food even though they’ve got it made out there. Then they complain about less developed countries destroying habits because people prefer to live than die.

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy.
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Fooloso4 »

Steve:
Now that the Democrats control the House of Representatives, is there any chance of them being either willing or able to limit the damage caused by this?
I think so. I read somewhere that scientists working with the E.P.A. are keeping research data in private hands, so even if it is suppressed on the E.P.A. website and not presented at meetings, it is still available. The House may start investigations that will bring attention to what the administration is doing to weaken the E.P.A. and suppress research findings. With the Kavanaugh hearings I think the public has developed a taste for political theater. I think there will be enough public support to prevent Trump from completely destroying the agency. The public may become outraged enough to force Congress to act and to oust Republicans from office at the next election. The pushback may even be enough to usher in a new round of legislation for green energy. Tied to job creation it would be very popular.
Steve3007
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

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Fooloso4 wrote:I think so. I read somewhere that scientists working with the E.P.A. are keeping research data in private hands, so even if it is suppressed on the E.P.A. website and not presented at meetings, it is still available...
Yes, I've read something similar. It seems that scientists working with the EPA are forced to try to protect their work from the people who've been appointed by the Trump administration to suppress or destroy it. As Trump made clear in the past few hours, if scientific research concludes something that he doesn't like he simply declares: "I refuse to believe it".

It seems curiously analogous to museum curators in places like Syria having to protect great works of antiquity from the insane vandalism of Daesh.
The House may start investigations that will bring attention to what the administration is doing to weaken the E.P.A. and suppress research findings...
I hope so!
Burning ghost wrote:The best to be done to help the climate situation is make people around the world more wealthy and give them access to better education. The rest is merely complaining about the symptom.
Greater wealth tends, generally, to lead to smaller familes. So, yes, since the underlying cause of climate change is simply the vast number of CO2 producing humans on the planet, greater wealth might mean a managed reduction in human population. But, in the short term, that greater wealth to a larger proporition of the world's population means higher average CO2 emissions per person. Perhaps, in the short term, we still need to deal with what you call the symptom?
The US has been one of the biggest contributors to carbon emissions LONG before Trump. People want big cars and cheap food even though they’ve got it made out there. Then they complain about less developed countries destroying habits because people prefer to live than die.

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy.
This is not specific to the US. It's developed countries in general. On this subject, I don't think accusing these developed countries of hypocrisy helps particularly. It's simply a fact that the world cannot sustain 7.5 billion people all with a big car and a developed-country ("western") lifestyle. But it's also a fact that it would be impossible to persuade the citizens of developed countries (us) to voluntarily give up our cars and our cheap food. We have to work with the situation in which we find ourselves and look for solutions to the problem that actually have a chance of being accepted and of working.
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Burning ghost
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

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Steve -

I believe, but I may be wrong, that the US is the worst culprit of all western countries - I may have been misinformed though. You’re right though, in the short term some things can be done; the serious problem remains the long term goals (a meal to eat today is hardly worth it if I have to starve for the rest of the month.)
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Sy Borg
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

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I think Australia has overtaken the US, BG, just that being ten times smaller means less impact. However, I suspect that we are culturally changing a little. Many of us are nervous about trends in the US, but also about interference by the Chinese.

Ideally, the US would be a solid counterbalance for China's ambitions to control our resources as part of their Silk Road, but unfortunately the nation seems burned out by the burden of long term global leadership in an ever more complex world, so they are now sacrificing its soft power just as the global power dynamics are reforming.

So this Trumpism move in the US means Australia will become very much more Chinese in the future, although somewhat counterbalanced by many Indian migrants. I am hopeful that that the blend of cultures will be positive as each broad demographic has plenty to teach to the others.
Steve3007
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

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Burning ghost wrote:I believe, but I may be wrong, that the US is the worst culprit of all western countries - I may have been misinformed though.
Greta wrote:I think Australia has overtaken the US, BG, just that being ten times smaller means less impact.
I presume it's partly a function of geography. The USA and Australia are relatively, physically, big countries so the average carbon footprint of each individual is inevitably going to be larger than it is in the UK, I presume. Petrol in Australia appears to be a little over half the price, per litre, that it costs in western Europe. In the US it's less than half the price.

Approximate prices in US dollars per litre:
US: 0.76
Australia: 0.99
UK: 1.60

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/

But I preume it would be both politically and geographically impractical to tax petrol at West European levels in countries where travelling distances are so much larger. Having said that, French President Emmanuel Macron is facing large scale protests against further increases in fuel taxes - the "yellow vest" protests.
Steve3007
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

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An interesting thing I've just noticed about petrol/gasoline prices in western Europe, from the source I cited above: There's quite a big difference between Holland and Belgium. I wonder if a lot of Dutch people drive across the border to fill up.
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Burning ghost
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

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It would make sense to hike up the price of fuel and subsidize for public transport fuel costs in order to lower the cost of public transport - given that in the UK privatization has made this a no go I guess it’s a moot point. Another option would be to implement laws for maximum fares, but there’s probably too many loopholes to make it a pragmatic idea.

Gas in poorer countries is VERY low. It is based on what people can afford really. Power (meaning material power) is a problem. People need it to get on and the price we’re paying in environmental terms is unknown.

Trump may be freeing up money to create a better and more stable economy that doesn’t need to rely on more and more fuel. I find that hard to believe though. The main issue is with the countries who are not economically stable enough to concern themselves with environmental effects - which leads straight back to the need to bring up the “standard of living” on a global scale. The myopic view of nationhood is dated and inevitably going to lead to its own disolution.

Basically I strongly believe that trying to make changes at home (modern western society) is pretty fruitless in terms of protecting the environment. The enrichment of neighbouring countries is the only serious possible solution I can see. From there we can only hope/encourage catalysation prior to too many countries falling too far behind. There is financial growth in African countries now, what concerns me is the internal and external mismanagement of these budding nations in Africa and elsewhere.

I think in the west it would be better to press on for an actual shift in how we vote and how people are heard on the political landscape. We seem too slow on the uptake when it comes to political reform; although with just reasons give that no one really wants to upset the cart - but we cannot hold back technology ... it will have to happen sooner rather than later or votes that have weight will become even more disconnected from the social situations.

Anyway, veering WAY off-topic here. You can go back to shouting and scream now about Trump ;)
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Burning ghost
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

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Note: I’ll post something later about what kind of change I am hoping for in the future and why I believe it is essential to push for one sooner rather than later.

Gotta go rake some leaves! ;)
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Steve3007
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Steve3007 »

Burning ghost wrote:Gotta go rake some leaves! ;)
Did some Finnish people tell you that's a good way to put out forest fires? ;)
You can go back to shouting and scream now about Trump ;)
OK. I'm interested in what course of action the Saudis decide on at the upcoming OPEC meeting.

The whole debacle with the assassination of that journalist at that consulate building in Turkey gave Trump the opportunity to demonstrate to their crown prince that he's got him where he wants him. By publicly supporting him, despite all the evidence, against accusations of murder and by showing his presidential pleasure at the falling oil price, he makes it very clear to the Crown Prince that he will not be at all pleased if they decide to cut production and support the price. And he makes it clear that it's in the crown prince's interests to keep Trump happy, because an unhappy Trump could make things difficult for him by suddenly deciding that there is a murder case to answer after all.

So I suspect that even though a low oil price is very painful for the Saudis, they won't cut production by enough to push prices up significantly and displease the boss. But I guess we'll soon see. US inventories showed another build this afternoon and crude dropped. But as I speak it's rising again.
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