Understanding Trump's Use of Language

[Sy Borg]

Greta I haven't looked into it properly but as I understand it the joke about Ringo not being the best drummer in the Beatles is a Jasper Carrot joke and nothing to do with Lennon.

Live and learn :)

[Steve3007]

Greta I haven't looked into it properly but as I understand it the joke about Ringo not being the best drummer in the Beatles is a Jasper Carrot joke and nothing to do with Lennon

Yes, I bet you stumbled on the same "Guardian" article that I did when looking into this important issue.

[Eduk]

Lol I did indeed.

[Sy Borg]

Steve, that quote of John Lennon's has entered legend but it was only a joke. You know what John L was like.

Yes! After writing it, and thinking I was being very funny in repeating it, I discovered that it is an extremely well-worn tired old joke and that, according to what I read in an article about it, John never actually said it, apparently. And the article then went on to say why Ringo was actually a very good drummer. So, if we can't solve any philosophical problems here, at least we can establish whether Ringo was a good drummer. Maybe. I haven't checked out the skills of Bernard Purdle yet.

Purdie is the master of grooviness. Listen to Aretha Franklin's Rock Steady of Steely Dan's Babylon Sister to get a sense of the beauty and smoothness of his execution. Dachshund would not approve - a black man. Then again, he talks like a bovver boy - who else uses silly terms like "race traitor"?

Thank you. Although I can blow reasonably hard if called upon to do so.

A bit concerned about this admission :)

Yes. My comment was really supposed to be a parody of what Dachshund said in another topic about how, in his view, only pure blooded white folks, unadulterated with the genes of inferior foul smelling sub-human animals, can build societies that we would want to pass on to our children.

It's all rather strange. Thing is, most people assume eventually humanity is going to be one of three things - gone, cyborgs or fairly uniformly brown skinned. I think the trend towards the latter worries those with paranoia and anxiety issues like John, who will catastrophise every change to the norms of the past, clinging desperately to the familiar while throwing barbs at the scary unfamiliar.

Not sure how things are going to go. Once people divided themselves geographically. Now it seems two poles of ideology are emerging in all places where free thought is allowed. The neo-fascist movement represented by Trump, Xi and Putin at the top end and the Dachshunds of this world at the bottom seems to be hungry for more order and control with authoritarian power structures that brook no debate or argument. It's as though half the world is pining for a strong all-knowing Daddy to take control because the world is starting to look scary and they are confused.

As we know, this yearning for an aggressive, uncompromising strongman who creates jobs, builds good roads, given everyone a common enemy to hate and fear and whose darker side can therefore be tolerated, happens over and over again. Often as a reaction to a leader or government who is perceived to be a ditherer.

True enough. Usually the dithering is in response to complex times. So then some clown turns up with magic bullet solutions, ignoring the nuances that carry medium and long term ramifications, and makes Dunning Krugeresque confident pronouncements about how they will achieve.

Anyway, now that Ivanka Trump has been found to have also used a personal email address for government business, perhaps the Democrats should borrow some of Trump's language.

Lock her up! Lock her up!

It's the shamelessness of the hypocrisy that I and others find so remarkable. Many of us could not imagine lying and adopting double standards so shamelessly.

[Sy Borg]

Greta I haven't looked into it properly but as I understand it the joke about Ringo not being the best drummer in the Beatles is a Jasper Carrot joke and nothing to do with Lennon

Yes, I bet you stumbled on the same "Guardian" article that I did when looking into this important issue.

I ended up with this one after the corrections: https://www.radiox.co.uk/artists/beatle ... t-drummer/

It was a pretty apt example of today's post-fact problems. That is exactly how misinformation spreads - some common rumour catches the imagination and off it goes. Meanwhile truth is left in the dust. It will be interesting to see if the world can dig its way out of what appears to be growing corruption.

[Eduk]

I saw 'lock her up' as more of a catchphrase than a serious desire?

[Eduk]

Nice radiox article Greta. I wasn't wholly trustful of the guardian article.

[Sy Borg]

Yes, but then people start taking Trump literally. Many interviewed before and after the election fully expected Trump to "lock her up" and are not impressed that she remains at large (apparently along with fellow felon, Ivanka).

Now this is what's annoying. Will there be thousands of people providing mea culpas and admitting that their calls to lock Hilary up were wrong? No freakin' way. Nothing will be said. Just wait for it to fade away.

Damn people. We are evolved to be tricksters. Look at other apes, especially chimps, routinely fooling and exploiting other species. That's the point of a big brain. We seem to be instinctively as dishonest as hell - thoroughly amoral. Will there ever be integrity in the public sphere in general? Maybe when AI is in charge, at best. Then again, the machines might steal electricity and data supplies for their "personal" (robotal?) consumption and if any journalists report it, damn them as peddlers of fake news.

[Eduk]

I don't know Greta. People are surprising. They can have a huge brain, be brilliant in their field and still believe impossibly dumb things. In my experience these beliefs are normally due to wanting, for reasons not to do with logic, something which isn't true to be true. So even though it might be a dumb belief it still makes some sense, there are still reasons.
Anyway, just trying to point out that people are surprising.

[Steve3007]

Yes, but then people start taking Trump literally. Many interviewed before and after the election fully expected Trump to "lock her up" and are not impressed that she remains at large (apparently along with fellow felon, Ivanka).

I think it's mostly just that people have lots of other day-to-day things to think about so they think very briefly, and very simplistically, about such things as this, before moving on to the more important things in their lives. Trump said he'd lock her up so she should, by now, be locked up. Problem solved.

It's similar with most other publicly discussed issues. Shortly after the Brexit vote in 2016 some people were interviewed about it, and they expressed surprise that it hadn't been done yet. As far as they were concerned, they'd voted to leave the EU so, the following morning someone should have pressed the "leave the EU" button, and the job would be done. Next.

I think that's one reason why leaders who pretend that this kind of ludicrously simplistic thing can be done are capable of being so popular, and people who point out the nuance and complexity of making decisions about entire societies of millions of individual people can be such a turn-off.

[Eduk]

I've worked at a few disfunctional companies. All of them had yes men in leadership positions.

[Steve3007]

Purdie is the master of grooviness. Listen to Aretha Franklin's Rock Steady of Steely Dan's Babylon Sister to get a sense of the beauty and smoothness of his execution.

I'm quite a big fan of Steely Dan, and that whole 70s funk/soul/jazz thing generally. I'll listen to Babylon Sister again to see if I can make a judgement on the drum work. as I recall, it has quote a strange stopping-and-starting rhythm. And Aretha Franklin's Rock Steady, I can't picture that in my mind's ear. Will have to listen to that too.

Back on the subject of skin colour: I quite like The Average White Band (Scottish 70s funk). Apparently, as a tribute to them, James Brown released a song in reply to "Pick Up The Pieces" under the name "Above Average Black Band". And of course, many many young white kids, like Keith Richards, were inspired to learn about American black-origin music through their love of Blue and Jazz.

I wonder if music really has helped to bring people from different backgrounds together to a significant extent, or whether that's just the superficial music industry schmaltz talking. "Ebony and Ivory, live together in perfect harmony, side by side on my piano keyboard. Oh Lord, why can't we?". Too much schmaltz Paul and Stevie.

[Sy Borg]

Yes, but then people start taking Trump literally. Many interviewed before and after the election fully expected Trump to "lock her up" and are not impressed that she remains at large (apparently along with fellow felon, Ivanka).

I think it's mostly just that people have lots of other day-to-day things to think about so they think very briefly, and very simplistically, about such things as this, before moving on to the more important things in their lives. Trump said he'd lock her up so she should, by now, be locked up. Problem solved.

It's similar with most other publicly discussed issues. Shortly after the Brexit vote in 2016 some people were interviewed about it, and they expressed surprise that it hadn't been done yet. As far as they were concerned, they'd voted to leave the EU so, the following morning someone should have pressed the "leave the EU" button, and the job would be done. Next.

I think that's one reason why leaders who pretend that this kind of ludicrously simplistic thing can be done are capable of being so popular, and people who point out the nuance and complexity of making decisions about entire societies of millions of individual people can be such a turn-off.

The perfect citizen: too busy to question. Puppets on strings.

The issue at present is that citizens are being tricked into providing uninformed consent to policies, which politicians refer to as a "mandate" and "the will of the people".

[Sy Borg]

I've worked at a few dysfunctional companies. All of them had yes men in leadership positions.

Leaders selfishly diminishing organisations by denying talent in the top positions for the sake of convenient parrots.

Back on the subject of skin colour: I quite like The Average White Band (Scottish 70s funk). Apparently, as a tribute to them, James Brown released a song in reply to "Pick Up The Pieces" under the name "Above Average Black Band". And of course, many many young white kids, like Keith Richards, were inspired to learn about American black-origin music through their love of Blues and Jazz.

The influence of music invented by descendants of slaves on western music has been profound. Jazz became a high art form running in parallel with classical music rather than being the poor relation that had so long been assumed. In time, ever more jazz musicians were more capable of playing classical music than classical musicians were of playing jazz - reading music is easier than effectively improvising, just as reading a script is easier than professional level improvisational acting.

I wonder if music really has helped to bring people from different backgrounds together to a significant extent, or whether that's just the superficial music industry schmaltz talking. "Ebony and Ivory, live together in perfect harmony, side by side on my piano keyboard. Oh Lord, why can't we?". Too much schmaltz Paul and Stevie.

Yes, it all looks pretty silly now. Now if they could devise a song about metal and skin they might start getting closer to the future :)

Part of the current friction today is between the romantic and the practical. Religion and atheism. Nationalism and universalism. Anthropocentrism and environmentalism. Fake news and science. It' as though some societies are going through some kind of adolescent angst between the child who wants to believe in magic, miracles and fairness and the adult who (so cruelly!) is pushing people to "put away childish things". I think there's some growing pains going on ATM.

[Dachshund]

- I'm a ratbag, alas,





I'm sure the forum will join with me in declaring that...


Never truer words were thus spake !!

REgards

Dachshund