Are Social Networks going to replace Nations?

[Burning ghost]

I’ve been watching certain patterns in the internet regarding how people are waxing and waning, leaving and joining and even being banned and/or silenced on the internet.

It seems to me that it is possible, if not entirely appreciated, that social networks will become so politicized that they’ll effectively represent a whole political spectra of global society.

Any expansion on this brief thought you’d like to add?

[h_k_s]

I’ve been watching certain patterns in the internet regarding how people are waxing and waning, leaving and joining and even being banned and/or silenced on the internet.

It seems to me that it is possible, if not entirely appreciated, that social networks will become so politicized that they’ll effectively represent a whole political spectra of global society.

Any expansion on this brief thought you’d like to add?

Nations will be controlled by whomever controls the military in those nations.

So social media will remain irrelevant.

[Steve3007]

Regarding the OP:

It sounds like what you're talking about is distributed virtual nations replacing traditional ones. It's an interesting idea. We already have distributed communities consisting of individuals who don't necessarily live in the same geographical location. I myself regard my community as being a combination of family, friends, work-mates and neighbours only a minority of whom (now) live close to me. Most of them started off living close but moved.

Of course, this isn't something that suddenly started with the advent of internet-based social media. It was just massively enhanced by that technology. Before that people wrote letters.

[Steve3007]

I suppose one sense in which we already have something vaguely similar to this concept of a distributed virtual Nation is in the concept of a Diaspora, such as the international Jewish Diaspora. But in this kind of example the community still seems to be united by the idea of a geographical homeland to which they aspire to return.

[Burning ghost]

I’ve been watching certain patterns in the internet regarding how people are waxing and waning, leaving and joining and even being banned and/or silenced on the internet.

It seems to me that it is possible, if not entirely appreciated, that social networks will become so politicized that they’ll effectively represent a whole political spectra of global society.

Any expansion on this brief thought you’d like to add?

Nations will be controlled by whomever controls the military in those nations.

So social media will remain irrelevant.

I made a mistake with my choice of words.

What I was referring to is how the concept of “nation” has developed over time. The modern concept of the nation refers to rigidly defined geographical areas whilst if you go back a couple of centuries such borders didn’t exist - the modern view is largely to do with the effect of industrialization and global commerce.

The “military” is only one of many factors that determine “nation”. I would even argue that today the use of military force is on the decline and that “war” has started to move more towards less direct physical challenges (for better or worst). We can easily choose to view the world through this or that lens; be it military, religious, economic or otherwise. I find it hard to dispute that the rise of the internet has had not only an unforeseen effect upon where we are today, but that it will play a significant role in where we go to next in regards to human identity and our understanding of humanity as a fractured whole clumsily staggering toward and unknown, and unknowable, future in which concepts of “nation” will in my view be absorbed by a different abstract idea of “society”/“community”.

The industrial revolution changed the face of the planet and I believe the information revolution will change the inner landscape of humanity by disposing, piece by piece (and silently) the concept of “country” and that in some future scenario people will be calling themselves “Instagrammians,” “Facebookians” and something along those lines; of course I don’t mean those social media sources will rise that high only that the global population will move toward a non-geographic based concept of “nation” and that the very idea of “borders” on the physical landscape will become as good as defunct even if the natural resources that lie within don’t.

[h_k_s]

Nations will be controlled by whomever controls the military in those nations.

So social media will remain irrelevant.

I made a mistake with my choice of words.

What I was referring to is how the concept of “nation” has developed over time. The modern concept of the nation refers to rigidly defined geographical areas whilst if you go back a couple of centuries such borders didn’t exist - the modern view is largely to do with the effect of industrialization and global commerce.

The “military” is only one of many factors that determine “nation”. I would even argue that today the use of military force is on the decline and that “war” has started to move more towards less direct physical challenges (for better or worst). We can easily choose to view the world through this or that lens; be it military, religious, economic or otherwise. I find it hard to dispute that the rise of the internet has had not only an unforeseen effect upon where we are today, but that it will play a significant role in where we go to next in regards to human identity and our understanding of humanity as a fractured whole clumsily staggering toward and unknown, and unknowable, future in which concepts of “nation” will in my view be absorbed by a different abstract idea of “society”/“community”.

The industrial revolution changed the face of the planet and I believe the information revolution will change the inner landscape of humanity by disposing, piece by piece (and silently) the concept of “country” and that in some future scenario people will be calling themselves “Instagrammians,” “Facebookians” and something along those lines; of course I don’t mean those social media sources will rise that high only that the global population will move toward a non-geographic based concept of “nation” and that the very idea of “borders” on the physical landscape will become as good as defunct even if the natural resources that lie within don’t.

After you do some more research you then need to rethink your notion about nations and their military.

The world is a power play between the USA, Russia, and China. The other countries are merely banana republics. Especially Germany.

[LuckyR]

Social media is an extremely efficient tool for dispensing propaganda. However since the folks who pay the bills care more about power and wealth than about ideology, both sides can corral their side and whip them into a frenzy. But we are currently running into the issue of: What do you do when your base is already maxed out on being thrown "red meat"? You can continue to do so, but it doesn't really grow the base.

[Burning ghost]

Hks -

Do research where? That isn’t a valid repsonse, I expect an answer or no answer at all. You don’t have to agree with my musings but if you’ve got nothing of substance to offer ... well, y’know.

[Burning ghost]

Social media is an extremely efficient tool for dispensing propaganda. However since the folks who pay the bills care more about power and wealth than about ideology, both sides can corral their side and whip them into a frenzy. But we are currently running into the issue of: What do you do when your base is already maxed out on being thrown "red meat"? You can continue to do so, but it doesn't really grow the base.

To expand a little further. I am considering the manner in which people associate with different media applications. We’ve seen quite a bit of news these last few years regarding how people use and navigate these sites. People do actually care about how they’re percieved and people can protest certain attitudes and ideologies enforced by internet sites by leaving them.

Here is something someone else posted on another forum some time ago: https://asgardia.space/en/blog/asgardia ... asgardian/

Obviously this is not exactly what I am talking about, but it does show a certain untapped potential of communications and an exchange of ideas. I don’t think it is fair to to say everything is about leadership is determined by “power” (by which I am assuming ‘brute force’ is meant behind that term) or to class all interactions as “propaganda”. An exchange and discussion of ideas and views about the political landscape isn’t necessarily “propaganda”. If we are to class these things as propaganda then we may as well call all schooling, learning, knowledge and experience some kind of “stealth propaganda” dressed as the original Greek meaning of “politika” (affairs of the state or the science of governing).

[LuckyR]

Social media is an extremely efficient tool for dispensing propaganda. However since the folks who pay the bills care more about power and wealth than about ideology, both sides can corral their side and whip them into a frenzy. But we are currently running into the issue of: What do you do when your base is already maxed out on being thrown "red meat"? You can continue to do so, but it doesn't really grow the base.

To expand a little further. I am considering the manner in which people associate with different media applications. We’ve seen quite a bit of news these last few years regarding how people use and navigate these sites. People do actually care about how they’re percieved and people can protest certain attitudes and ideologies enforced by internet sites by leaving them.

Here is something someone else posted on another forum some time ago: https://asgardia.space/en/blog/asgardia ... asgardian/

Obviously this is not exactly what I am talking about, but it does show a certain untapped potential of communications and an exchange of ideas. I don’t think it is fair to to say everything is about leadership is determined by “power” (by which I am assuming ‘brute force’ is meant behind that term) or to class all interactions as “propaganda”. An exchange and discussion of ideas and views about the political landscape isn’t necessarily “propaganda”. If we are to class these things as propaganda then we may as well call all schooling, learning, knowledge and experience some kind of “stealth propaganda” dressed as the original Greek meaning of “politika” (affairs of the state or the science of governing).

Of course not, I never said it is. However the social media programmers get paid by the click. The current (incredibly efficient) model shows viewers increasingly fringe (read: interesting) headlines to click on. At some point in order to make a more interesting headline the authors will have to stray from the truth into half truth then quarter truth and at some point you have crossed into propaganda territory.

[Burning ghost]

And my thinking is from here people, more likely the up and coming generations, will be more aware of this than we are due to exposure since childhood and an understanding of how a simple word can be blown out of proportion their peers let alone the media. I would expect from here that a more astute generation will come to the fore and that source uses on the internet will help define certain ideological groups regardless of geographical location.

I am not suggesti that this is either a “positive” or a “negative” thing. Merely I am saying I see things possibly moving towards this although I cannot honestly fathom what it may evolve into eventually - I am more confident in saying the idea of “nation” will certainly become something else (meaning a far weaker role of geographical location on personal identity - which, again, may or may not be a positive thing?)

Note: My apologies. I quoted you, but the later part was more of a general address to others who’ve responded. From Obviously onwards I was addressing everysone - edit if you wish for clarity, I certainly wasn’t trying to put words in anyone’s mouth.

[Steve3007]

The world is a power play between the USA, Russia, and China. The other countries are merely banana republics. Especially Germany.

A Banana republic is a country whose economy is based almost entirely on the export of a single limited resource (e.g. bananas). Countries like Russia and Saudi Arabia arguably approximate this with their dependence on oil exports. Clearly to divide the countries of the world as quoted above is absurd.

[Eduk]

meaning a far weaker role of geographical location on personal identity - which, again, may or may not be a positive thing?

I think, due to technology, that geography is less and less important as regards tribalism. I'd even go so far as to say technology is reducing the need for tribalism.

[h_k_s]

The world is a power play between the USA, Russia, and China. The other countries are merely banana republics. Especially Germany.

A Banana republic is a country whose economy is based almost entirely on the export of a single limited resource (e.g. bananas). Countries like Russia and Saudi Arabia arguably approximate this with their dependence on oil exports. Clearly to divide the countries of the world as quoted above is absurd.

Good technical point.

[Plaffelvohfen]

I’ve been watching certain patterns in the internet regarding how people are waxing and waning, leaving and joining and even being banned and/or silenced on the internet.

It seems to me that it is possible, if not entirely appreciated, that social networks will become so politicized that they’ll effectively represent a whole political spectra of global society.

Fun idea to play with...

I think there's potential in digital social networking but there are traps too. Virtual echo chambers are not appropriate places to nurture minds in my opinion, and they're popping up all across the social web... I'm of the opinion that not all ideas are good ideas, thus my apprehension of those echo chambers at the moment...

That said, I agree with you that the information revolution will change the inner landscape of humanity, but I don't think we will be able to distance ourselves from geo-locality as much... I think (hope?) the information age will instead, finally force us into space colonization... I can imagine the legal establishment of different Virtual Nations via some kind of digital Constitutions as a prelude for independent space colony programs... A whole bunch of different "Kickstarted" independent colonies based on philosophical ideas, you may have to invest for your great-great-great grand children but eh, I like to think we're more than ourselves...