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How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

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Jan Sand
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How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » February 26th, 2019, 4:29 am

At the close of WWII there was a strong spirit of world cooperation to promote peace, resulting in the UN, although alliances at that time encouraged dissention and conflict. The entire planet is now directly threatened by the massive distortion of the atmosphere from global warming. The success of corporate profits in destroying much of the ecology basic to maintaining life on the planet plus the successive military catastrophes now in progress are the two major dangers facing civilization. In addition, an alarming trend towards nuclear war out of military enthusiasm to make nuclear weapons acceptable for use in standard combat is in progress. There is a crisis in time remaining available to save human civilization and much of current planetary life from vanishing. What can be done to vastly energize necessary efforts to prevent total catastrophe?

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Fooloso4 » February 26th, 2019, 12:41 pm

I think that we should first acknowledge that total catastrophe may be unavoidable. This has been true for a long time. The steps that can be taken now to avoid it are the same steps that have been taken in the past - a recognition of shared interests over narrowly conceived self-interest, that the destruction of our enemies may mean the destruction of ourselves, the cost of ignoring the environment far outweigh the benefits, wealth without responsibility is unsustainable, absolutes are the poison of the mind.

Jan Sand
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » February 26th, 2019, 1:23 pm

My concern is not with how real are the problems, nor how sensible are the known and accepted remedies but with the almost total lack of the immense dynamic of real and forceful effort by those who will be destroyed in the rapidly oncoming catastrophe. Every living human will be the victim and yet the enthusiasm for the necessary transformation of almost every aspect of society has yet to make any real appearance. It's a shooting of fish in a barrel phenomenon. It is becoming to be clear that something very fundamental and vital has vanished from the human species.

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Fooloso4 » February 26th, 2019, 2:13 pm

Jan Sand:

Every living human will be the victim and yet the enthusiasm for the necessary transformation of almost every aspect of society has yet to make any real appearance.
I think that there are too many people in positions of power who either do not recognize the immediacy of the problem or think that they the will be immune. Of course by the time they are persuaded, if they are persuaded, a great deal more damage will have been done, and much of it perhaps irreversible. For those in power the primary goal is often to stay in power. How much change and in what direction is needed to stay in power is not always clear. There is a strong tendency not to promote change, to maintain the status quo, if one is ensconced. To secure this power propaganda disguised as difference in scientific opinion keeps people doubting that things like climate change are real or man-made, and that only Trump can be trusted to keep us secure, because only Trump is strong enough to stand up to our enemies and not cooperate with our allies.

The “Green New Deal” offers some hope but it does not offer clear practicable solutions. I do not know whether the majority will be persuaded or if they will buy into the fear of socialism or if special interests will still be able to hold the cards and if what they see as being in their interest intransigent.
It is becoming to be clear that something very fundamental and vital has vanished from the human species.
I don’t agree. I think that people have always put their own self-interests first. The problem as I see it is that they do not recognize the true scope of their self-interest and what is necessary to actually protect those interests.

Jan Sand
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » February 26th, 2019, 2:38 pm

I agree that non-recognition is a problem, somewhat due to the media under the control of those who are immenbely profiting from the continual destruction of the basic life sustaining factors in nature. Nevertheless, I am merely an individual of no special expertise who has lived long enough to be wary of disinformation with a slight layman's grasp of scientific essentials. I have internet connections easily available to anyone with a computer. and through that I am necessarily horrified by what appearss to be a total complete world disaster. I am neither supremely intelligent nor better informed than anyone else and why am i so specially motivated and not a very large living majority similarly upset? The survival of the species seems to be missing.

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Fooloso4 » February 26th, 2019, 2:58 pm

I do not think you are as alone as you might imagine. The recognition of the problems is fairly widespread but solutions are not so evident to those who recognize the problems.

Jan Sand
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » February 26th, 2019, 3:21 pm

I concur I am not alone but that is not my concern. I am distressed at the lack of real reaction instead of the false innefective dog and pony shows that are amusing in a rather ironic manner rather than the open massive fury of an entire planet condemned to destruction.

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LuckyR
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by LuckyR » February 28th, 2019, 2:11 pm

The lack of action on global warming is due to a prefect confluence of several factors. The slow onset of the disaster plays against human psychology of the recognition of danger. The weighing of the trade off between short term gain vs long term catastrophe also plays to a weakness of way humans address problems. Lastly the assumption that the world is a zero sum gain structure does not encourage cooperation between competitors (countries/corporations).
"As usual... it depends."

Jan Sand
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » February 28th, 2019, 2:38 pm

The current accommodation to the tsunami of a frying planet would, I suppose, grant satisfaction to Dante's vision of the final reward for misbehavior. But the sustaining hubris humanity displays like the open glory of a peacock's tail of dominating intellect does not compliment our grasp of reality. Whatever grand philosiphies we command, our collective minds seem more in the category of rabbits than something more perceptive. This is not joyous revelry oncoming, it is just plain rough death and the almost total refusal to acknowledge that is, at minimum, disappointing.

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LuckyR
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by LuckyR » February 28th, 2019, 4:54 pm

Personally I like the idea of an additive to jet fuel that reflects solar radiation, since it doesn't require buy-in from billions of the unwilling, the ignorant and the oblivious. Not dissimilar to the solution to the ozone layer crisis from fluorocarbons in the 70s, in the sense that Joe Citizen wasn't required to participate.
"As usual... it depends."

Jan Sand
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » February 28th, 2019, 9:09 pm

There are many possibilities for minuscule effects but any real effective efforts require the criminalization of murder for money and an effective massive panic to mobilize the entire planet and even then any success is very doubtful. That has yet to materialize.

Jan Sand
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » February 28th, 2019, 10:48 pm

One of the most recent attempts at https://science.slashdot.org/story/19/0 ... gy-pioneer indicated a plan to send clouds of sea salt over the oceans to reflect heat at a cost of two hundred million dollars a year but side effects are not indicated. Salt rain throughout the workd might be a major difficulty by poisoning crops and polluting drinking water.
All sors of difficulties arise from major fiddling with processes

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JosephM
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by JosephM » March 1st, 2019, 6:03 pm

We are doomed , I have no doubt of that , the main reason is that few people are willing to entertain that the other side has a valid point.
The parties play rhetorical games, strategic plans, and have selfish motives.

It isn't global warming IMO that is the real problem, that's a red herring.
This is my opinion,

but there are others of the opinion , that this is a real thing due to humans actions and that the sky is going to cave in unless the US slits its own economic throat while the rapidly deforesting third world, China and so forth , continues their March to catch up.

Consider if you have the Green new deal attitude , and then consider whether you are willing to consider my stance seriously. I think ,You aren't.
And therein lies the sentence of doom.

Jan Sand
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » March 2nd, 2019, 3:38 am

As is evident from the responses evoked by my inquiry, I can only conclude that there are limits to the fundamental motivating complexes forming the envelope of human interaction with the environment. The two instruments of evolution that have, so far, seen to fabricate successful species to see to it that life survives and proliferates on this planet are the ability to build on previously successful dynamisms within living structures by both reasonably exact duplication of previously successful creatures and a side effect of variations in this duplication to produce slight changes that are parsed by the second major evolutionary force known as death of inappropriate variations. This cooperation of reproduction and death has, in the past, permitted successful changes in duplication to meet and conquer ecological variations on the planet which have destroyed major sectors of living creatures in the past but also encouraged the variations to multiply successfully. This process of elimination and success applies , not only to individual creatures, but also to entire societies.
In the past couple of centuries the competition of various human societies has evolved to the point where one social formation with its traditions and legalities has captured almost completely all of human society and has solidified to the extent that its power structures have become so resilient that its dynamic complex has pretty much totally lost the ability to respond to massive ecological changes as the results of its technological conquests. It no longer retains sufficient flexibility to face and respond adequately to massive confrontations with ecological changes. If this required flexibility is not very quickly re-acquired, civilization has very little prospect of surviving.

Jan Sand
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » March 2nd, 2019, 12:42 pm

Expressions of Depressions

Persistence of existence cannot be dismissed
When the physical and the fiscal declines do persist.
It’s not funny when the lacks of money leaves one pissed,
But the aching back and bones with age become the gist
Of mounting disappointments to evoke the pessimist.

No doubt the world, now unfurled, in full manifestation
Presents events of dark contents and zero expectation
Where roiling atmospheres, seas in wild contamination
Deserves the screams with evil dreams, wild exclamation
To nail what fails to avail, at minimum, an open explanation.

The insanities of Earth’s humanities to ignore current events
Leaves one in open astonishment at the lack of common sense.
How is it vaguely possible with intellects quite passible yet dense
To square the total horror, reactionless, actionless in intents
To relate and activate with energies and synergies a sensible defense?

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