Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

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Sy Borg
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

Post by Sy Borg »

Agree to disagree, Sculptor. There are simply too many people. Pollution, traffic jams, long queues and intense struggles just to find decent work and accommodation don't happen in moderate populations. We've squeezed just about every animal and ecosystem out. There's almost nowhere that we don't colonise and control.

"We" refers to humanity en masse. I appreciate that "we" do not have shared behaviours, interests or prospects but, as a whole, humanity is not operating sustainably.

I'm fine with you thinking being careful with consumption and waste are pointless. Most people do. For me, it's the principle of it. I don't like waste and I appreciate that each thing I have or eat comes at a cost for other organisms. (Whether modding here is an optimal use of the energy provided by other organisms' deaths is debatable).
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

Post by LuckyR »

Greta wrote: May 6th, 2020, 6:40 pm
gad-fly wrote: May 6th, 2020, 11:07 am

It takes about 8 kilograms of grain to produce one kilogram of beef. Similar though smaller multiplier applies to pork and chicken. If human beings are grain-fed, reduction in the size of farmland for grain alone would be astounding, let alone the area for livestock. Whether veggies will be more expensive is another question, but Vegetarianism almost looks like the proverbial magic bullet.
I see no way around the considerable resistance in the community towards vegetarianism. Even today it can be difficult to find vegetarian option in food stores. In fact, meat eating is increasing around the world. At least it looks like that trend will now be reversed.
Beef consumption is on the way down here but rising in the second and third worlds. Meat packing plants are going to cycle between open and closed due to COVID. My financial advice is invest in Beyond Meat.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

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Following the "Six Degrees of Separation" concept (and the closely related "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon") I wonder if it could be calculated when each of us, on average, will be a given number of degrees of separation from somebody who has died from Covid 19. To my knowledge, I'm currently 1 degree of separation from somebody who (based on his description of the symptoms over the phone) almost died from it (my oldest friend). But, to my knowledge, nobody that I know has yet died from it.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

Post by Pattern-chaser »

A man I used to work with died. He had CoViD-19, but also leukaemia, and it isn't clear exactly what killed him. That's a degree of 1, I think. I hope that will be it, but somehow I doubt it. 😢
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

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Steve3007 wrote: May 14th, 2020, 12:17 pm Following the "Six Degrees of Separation" concept (and the closely related "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon") I wonder if it could be calculated when each of us, on average, will be a given number of degrees of separation from somebody who has died from Covid 19. To my knowledge, I'm currently 1 degree of separation from somebody who (based on his description of the symptoms over the phone) almost died from it (my oldest friend). But, to my knowledge, nobody that I know has yet died from it.
I haven't been in any movies so I can't play that game.

If the death toll ends up at 200K (after the third wave), then the chance of dying in the US would be 6 hundredths of one percent. Your chance of knowing someone who dies can be calculated, if you know the number of people you know.
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

Post by Steve3007 »

Strangely enough, my degree of separation from Kevin Bacon is 3. A guy I used to work with had a very small part in a film with John Belushi, many years ago, and he was in Animal House with Kevin Bacon.
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

Post by gad-fly »

LuckyR wrote: May 8th, 2020, 2:38 am
Greta wrote: May 6th, 2020, 6:40 pm
I see no way around the considerable resistance in the community towards vegetarianism. Even today it can be difficult to find vegetarian option in food stores. In fact, meat eating is increasing around the world. At least it looks like that trend will now be reversed.
Beef consumption is on the way down here but rising in the second and third worlds. Meat packing plants are going to cycle between open and closed due to COVID. My financial advice is invest in Beyond Meat.
If Distancing should become the new normal, one victim must be the meat processing industry which has workers closely-spaced on the production line. Increasing spacing from 1m. to 2m. would half the speed of the line. This would lead to substantial increase in meat price, and in turn more vegetarian consumption comparatively.

I can say the same for the travel and the public transport industry. If an airplane can only be half full, expect the ticket price to double.
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

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gad-fly wrote: May 18th, 2020, 12:04 am If Distancing should become the new normal, one victim must be the meat processing industry which has workers closely-spaced on the production line. Increasing spacing from 1m. to 2m. would half the speed of the line.
Yes, I read recently that many (most? all?) CoViD19 hot-spots in the US are centred on meat-packaging plants. They are obviously an area of commerce where distancing is difficult or impossible.
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

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gad-fly wrote: May 18th, 2020, 12:04 am If Distancing should become the new normal, one victim must be the meat processing industry which has workers closely-spaced on the production line. Increasing spacing from 1m. to 2m. would half the speed of the line. This would lead to substantial increase in meat price, and in turn more vegetarian consumption comparatively.

I can say the same for the travel and the public transport industry. If an airplane can only be half full, expect the ticket price to double.
Distancing as the New Normal can have a strong impact on the global economy. it would be wise for us to think and plan ahead now. Inflation, initially bottomed by too much money lying idle because or reduced consumption and government pumping, would raise its ugly head as everything becomes very expensive cost-wise. The vicious circle will be on auto-pilot. Governments would fall in conjunction with political turbulence.

But what can we do now, except to demand more and more doling out, as if there is no tomorrow? Remember what followed the Weimar Republic in Germany?
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

Post by LuckyR »

gad-fly wrote: May 18th, 2020, 12:04 am
LuckyR wrote: May 8th, 2020, 2:38 am

Beef consumption is on the way down here but rising in the second and third worlds. Meat packing plants are going to cycle between open and closed due to COVID. My financial advice is invest in Beyond Meat.
If Distancing should become the new normal, one victim must be the meat processing industry which has workers closely-spaced on the production line. Increasing spacing from 1m. to 2m. would half the speed of the line. This would lead to substantial increase in meat price, and in turn more vegetarian consumption comparatively.

I can say the same for the travel and the public transport industry. If an airplane can only be half full, expect the ticket price to double.
Well, jet fuel prices should be rock bottom low, though. Since OPEC is cranking out oil with no market for gasoline, for a while there crude had a negative price, the suppliers would pay you to take oil off of their hands since there was no storage available due to the glut.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

Post by gad-fly »

LuckyR wrote: May 20th, 2020, 8:35 pm
gad-fly wrote: May 18th, 2020, 12:04 am

If Distancing should become the new normal, one victim must be the meat processing industry which has workers closely-spaced on the production line. Increasing spacing from 1m. to 2m. would half the speed of the line. This would lead to substantial increase in meat price, and in turn more vegetarian consumption comparatively.

I can say the same for the travel and the public transport industry. If an airplane can only be half full, expect the ticket price to double.
Well, jet fuel prices should be rock bottom low, though. Since OPEC is cranking out oil with no market for gasoline, for a while there crude had a negative price, the suppliers would pay you to take oil off of their hands since there was no storage available due to the glut.
In textbook Economics, short-term price is determined by prevailing supply and demand. In the long term, price is reflected by real cost plus profit. Distancing to increase cost will definitely lead to corresponding price increase in the near future. The shortage of storage facility is but a short-term phenomenon.
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

Post by gad-fly »

Will social distancing be a thing of the past when the present pandemic is finally over? In the meantime, will the required distance be reduced say from 2m to 1.5 m. We should ponder since social distancing has far wider implication on our social fabric than we can presently realize.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

Post by Sy Borg »

gad-fly wrote: June 24th, 2020, 10:38 am Will social distancing be a thing of the past when the present pandemic is finally over? In the meantime, will the required distance be reduced say from 2m to 1.5 m. We should ponder since social distancing has far wider implication on our social fabric than we can presently realize.
There have been reports that social distancing has resulted in significant reductions in other infectious diseases this winter.

Humans are not meant to be crammed together any more than our pigs and chickens. It's not good for us. Our body systems are not evolved to cope with prolonged close exposure to the potential pathogens of hundreds (or more) other people. Increasingly we have crammed into vehicles, lifts, shops, offices and pavements to the point where transmission of germs is inevitable.
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

Post by gad-fly »

Greta wrote: July 2nd, 2020, 5:57 pm
There have been reports that social distancing has resulted in significant reductions in other infectious diseases this winter.

Humans are not meant to be crammed together any more than our pigs and chickens. It's not good for us. Our body systems are not evolved to cope with prolonged close exposure to the potential pathogens of hundreds (or more) other people. Increasingly we have crammed into vehicles, lifts, shops, offices and pavements to the point where transmission of germs is inevitable.
It makes sense that social distancing would reduce infection.

We are social animal, like ape. Personally, I am inclined to agree with you that I would feel more comfortable with fewer strangers around.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Distancing in the Pandemic on the Global Village

Post by Sy Borg »

gad-fly wrote: July 2nd, 2020, 10:46 pm
Greta wrote: July 2nd, 2020, 5:57 pm
There have been reports that social distancing has resulted in significant reductions in other infectious diseases this winter.

Humans are not meant to be crammed together any more than our pigs and chickens. It's not good for us. Our body systems are not evolved to cope with prolonged close exposure to the potential pathogens of hundreds (or more) other people. Increasingly we have crammed into vehicles, lifts, shops, offices and pavements to the point where transmission of germs is inevitable.
It makes sense that social distancing would reduce infection.

We are social animal, like ape. Personally, I am inclined to agree with you that I would feel more comfortable with fewer strangers around.
While we are great apes - and chimps, bonobos and gorillas are highly social - orangutans are more like philosophers, preferring the peacefulness of solitude (or just being with one's offspring) to the hurly burly of group living.

I like the two-metre rule. I don't want random people closer to me than that, disease or no disease. It's about freedom at the most fundamental level.
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