Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

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gad-fly
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Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by gad-fly »

Serious concern on the widespread shut-down of the economy, caused by the present pandemic, has led to panic moves by governments all over the world. It can be appreciated that governments have no choice but to take stop-gap measures, like shooting now and finding out who has been shot later. It follows that those moaning and groaning loudest would usually be prioritized for salvage without regard to fairness and consequence. The petroleum sector is one such example in Canada.

With so many citizens financially stressed, many governments would: 1. Delay/cancel tax payment; 2. Refund tax payment; 3. Introduce emergency benefit; 4. Pay 50% to 80% of wage through employer subject to no firing. Measures to help employers would also run in parallel.

Introducing so many different measures within such a short time span, apart from being administratively difficult and costly, can be duplicative and confusing to the public. A better approach may be to introduce Basic Income Guarantee (BIG or GBI) instead. The most recent pilot basic Income program was undertaken in Canada, giving 4000 Ontario residents living in poverty C$17,000 a year or C$24,00 per couple. They can keep half of their income from any job they have. Federally it was suggested in April 17, 2018 that this would cost roughly C$43 billion a year. No doubt a lot of money for any government to afford, but drastic time creates drastic demand to be satisfied. In the end, the Canadian Government may find the bill to their present piecemeal and ad hoc measures not much less than C$43. If so, why not have this neat, clear-cut, and fair policy introduced, for other governments all over the world to follow as a good example?
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h_k_s
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by h_k_s »

gad-fly wrote: April 9th, 2020, 2:41 pm Serious concern on the widespread shut-down of the economy, caused by the present pandemic, has led to panic moves by governments all over the world. It can be appreciated that governments have no choice but to take stop-gap measures, like shooting now and finding out who has been shot later. It follows that those moaning and groaning loudest would usually be prioritized for salvage without regard to fairness and consequence. The petroleum sector is one such example in Canada.

With so many citizens financially stressed, many governments would: 1. Delay/cancel tax payment; 2. Refund tax payment; 3. Introduce emergency benefit; 4. Pay 50% to 80% of wage through employer subject to no firing. Measures to help employers would also run in parallel.

Introducing so many different measures within such a short time span, apart from being administratively difficult and costly, can be duplicative and confusing to the public. A better approach may be to introduce Basic Income Guarantee (BIG or GBI) instead. The most recent pilot basic Income program was undertaken in Canada, giving 4000 Ontario residents living in poverty C$17,000 a year or C$24,00 per couple. They can keep half of their income from any job they have. Federally it was suggested in April 17, 2018 that this would cost roughly C$43 billion a year. No doubt a lot of money for any government to afford, but drastic time creates drastic demand to be satisfied. In the end, the Canadian Government may find the bill to their present piecemeal and ad hoc measures not much less than C$43. If so, why not have this neat, clear-cut, and fair policy introduced, for other governments all over the world to follow as a good example?
This is certainly a very timely question with the current business downturn due to the lockdowns everywhere across the world because of the COVID-19 Chinese bat virus.

Such a draconian socialist approach as a "basic income guarantee" does not seem to fit in with the western capitalist nations' economic philosophies inherited from John Locke the economic philosopher of the 1700's.

And it did not work for the Russian Communists either, nor for the European Eastern Bloc prior to 1991.

So my personal view is that only a temporary safety net such as unemployment payments are appropriate in capitalist societies like North America and Europe.

Eating bats in China has now killed thousands of people both inside and outside of China. It will soon catch up with the millions killed from AIDS that resulted from eating monkeys in Africa.

People should have listened to Moses and stuck to the kosher rules of the Tenakh. Bats and monkeys are definitely NOT kosher.
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by Spyrith »

In my opinion, a UBI is simply an indirect subsidy to big business, real estate developers, land owners and property owners.

For instance, let's say you approve UBI, what's the first thing that's going to happen? People who are homeless or have poor housing situation will immediately use the money to upgrade and move to a nicer, bigger house (or one that is closer to work or points of interest).

But since everyone has UBI, demand for higher quality housing will essentially explode and cause pressurre on the prices to go up. Way more people now compete for a limited housing stock so prices go higher. The same will likely apply to other big and small ticket purchases.

Once the dust settles, you're essentially back you came, except that now your country's finances are torn to pieces and you can't remove the UBI without causing a revolution.
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by gad-fly »

h_k_s wrote: April 11th, 2020, 10:57 pm
gad-fly wrote: April 9th, 2020, 2:41 pm Serious concern on the widespread shut-down of the economy, caused by the present pandemic, has led to panic moves by governments all over the world. It can be appreciated that governments have no choice but to take stop-gap measures, like shooting now and finding out who has been shot later. It follows that those moaning and groaning loudest would usually be prioritized for salvage without regard to fairness and consequence. The petroleum sector is one such example in Canada.

With so many citizens financially stressed, many governments would: 1. Delay/cancel tax payment; 2. Refund tax payment; 3. Introduce emergency benefit; 4. Pay 50% to 80% of wage through employer subject to no firing. Measures to help employers would also run in parallel.

Introducing so many different measures within such a short time span, apart from being administratively difficult and costly, can be duplicative and confusing to the public. A better approach may be to introduce Basic Income Guarantee (BIG or GBI) instead. The most recent pilot basic Income program was undertaken in Canada, giving 4000 Ontario residents living in poverty C$17,000 a year or C$24,00 per couple. They can keep half of their income from any job they have. Federally it was suggested in April 17, 2018 that this would cost roughly C$43 billion a year. No doubt a lot of money for any government to afford, but drastic time creates drastic demand to be satisfied. In the end, the Canadian Government may find the bill to their present piecemeal and ad hoc measures not much less than C$43. If so, why not have this neat, clear-cut, and fair policy introduced, for other governments all over the world to follow as a good example?
This is certainly a very timely question with the current business downturn due to the lockdowns everywhere across the world

Such a draconian socialist approach as a "basic income guarantee" does not seem to fit in with the western capitalist nations' economic philosophies inherited from John Locke the economic philosopher of the 1700's.

So my personal view is that only a temporary safety net such as unemployment payments are appropriate in capitalist societies like North America and Europe.
On Easter Saturday, the Canadian House of Commons unanimously approved Emergency Wage Subsidy Benefit amounting to 75% workers' wage to keep employers laying them off. The subsidy, retroactive to March 15, will cost $73 billion, which dwarfs the "draconian socialist approach of Basic Income Guarantee" at $43 billion, as estimated in 2018. The difference likely stems from the former benefiting according to percentage, whereas the latter would benefit uniformly on recognized poverty/basic level.

The former's administrative cost will be more, since each employee will receive his specific amount, presumably computed and distributed through his employer. It will also take more time to process the "emergency", when time is of the essence to many.

As I have said, drastic time calls for drastic measures. Emergency relief on the pandemic is essential. How? This is the timely and crucial question. It falls on us to debate and offer public opinion, instead of blaming government afterwards for the mess created by panic moves. Comment from you all are invited.
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h_k_s
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by h_k_s »

gad-fly wrote: April 12th, 2020, 12:12 pm
h_k_s wrote: April 11th, 2020, 10:57 pm

This is certainly a very timely question with the current business downturn due to the lockdowns everywhere across the world

Such a draconian socialist approach as a "basic income guarantee" does not seem to fit in with the western capitalist nations' economic philosophies inherited from John Locke the economic philosopher of the 1700's.

So my personal view is that only a temporary safety net such as unemployment payments are appropriate in capitalist societies like North America and Europe.
On Easter Saturday, the Canadian House of Commons unanimously approved Emergency Wage Subsidy Benefit amounting to 75% workers' wage to keep employers laying them off. The subsidy, retroactive to March 15, will cost $73 billion, which dwarfs the "draconian socialist approach of Basic Income Guarantee" at $43 billion, as estimated in 2018. The difference likely stems from the former benefiting according to percentage, whereas the latter would benefit uniformly on recognized poverty/basic level.

The former's administrative cost will be more, since each employee will receive his specific amount, presumably computed and distributed through his employer. It will also take more time to process the "emergency", when time is of the essence to many.

As I have said, drastic time calls for drastic measures. Emergency relief on the pandemic is essential. How? This is the timely and crucial question. It falls on us to debate and offer public opinion, instead of blaming government afterwards for the mess created by panic moves. Comment from you all are invited.
Being temporary this sounds (looks, walks, and quacks) like UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE PAYMENTS. As I said, unemployment makes more sense.
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by gad-fly »

gad-fly wrote: April 12th, 2020, 12:12 pm
On Easter Saturday, the Canadian House of Commons unanimously approved Emergency Wage Subsidy Benefit amounting to 75% workers' wage to keep employers laying them off. The subsidy, retroactive to March 15, will cost $73 billion, which dwarfs the "draconian socialist approach of Basic Income Guarantee" at $43 billion, as estimated in 2018. The difference likely stems from the former benefiting according to percentage, whereas the latter would benefit uniformly on recognized poverty/basic level.

The former's administrative cost will be more, since each employee will receive his specific amount, presumably computed and distributed through his employer. It will also take more time to process the "emergency", when time is of the essence to many.

As I have said, drastic time calls for drastic measures. Emergency relief on the pandemic is essential. How? This is the timely and crucial question. It falls on us to debate and offer public opinion, instead of blaming government afterwards for the mess created by panic moves. Comment from you all are invited.
Panic Moves seem to be the norm with governments focusing on unemployment during the present pandemic. In Hong Kong the wage subsidy is 50%, against 75% in Canada costing C$73 billion. But the problem does not end there. Employers cannot dismiss in order to receive the benefit, but can they not reduce wage? One thing is sure, though. Pay 50% wage benefit, and allow wage reduction of 50%, and everything can be as good as new. If 50% benefit and 10% allowable wage reduction, be prepared for another panic move.

Is employment, or unemployment, that important in this crisis? In a free labor market, employment is functional on supply and demand. With deep recession brought along by the economy shutting down, subsidizing wage is no more than expensive window dressing to fool the public. When the jobs are not there, it is futile to cover up by employing workers to flip file, shift muck, or hanging around chatting to one another at some distance.

What can be more appropriate than to tackle the problem direct by helping hardship cases evenly and universally. I can see nothing better than Basic Income Guarantee (BIG) for all citizens, with Basic defined at poverty level. Understandably the high-wage unemployed will be hurt more, but this is a drastic time when the bottom line is for all to endure and last until the sun shines again. The bill, as can be witnessed in Canada, is only C$43 billion as inflated from 2 years ago. If Canada can do it, no doubt other countries can too.
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by Marvin_Edwards »

gad-fly wrote: April 9th, 2020, 2:41 pm Serious concern on the widespread shut-down of the economy, caused by the present pandemic, has led to panic moves by governments all over the world. It can be appreciated that governments have no choice but to take stop-gap measures, like shooting now and finding out who has been shot later. It follows that those moaning and groaning loudest would usually be prioritized for salvage without regard to fairness and consequence. The petroleum sector is one such example in Canada.

With so many citizens financially stressed, many governments would: 1. Delay/cancel tax payment; 2. Refund tax payment; 3. Introduce emergency benefit; 4. Pay 50% to 80% of wage through employer subject to no firing. Measures to help employers would also run in parallel.

Introducing so many different measures within such a short time span, apart from being administratively difficult and costly, can be duplicative and confusing to the public. A better approach may be to introduce Basic Income Guarantee (BIG or GBI) instead. The most recent pilot basic Income program was undertaken in Canada, giving 4000 Ontario residents living in poverty C$17,000 a year or C$24,00 per couple. They can keep half of their income from any job they have. Federally it was suggested in April 17, 2018 that this would cost roughly C$43 billion a year. No doubt a lot of money for any government to afford, but drastic time creates drastic demand to be satisfied. In the end, the Canadian Government may find the bill to their present piecemeal and ad hoc measures not much less than C$43. If so, why not have this neat, clear-cut, and fair policy introduced, for other governments all over the world to follow as a good example?
I agree that the solution should be kept simple. In theory, we already have all the parts in place for welfare and unemployment insurance. To keep it simple we could stick with those. But we'd have to ramp up the bureaucracy to handle the swell of claims. I believe assistance should be means-tested, rather than a general benefit for everyone.
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by gad-fly »

Marvin_Edwards wrote: April 15th, 2020, 10:36 pm
gad-fly wrote: April 9th, 2020, 2:41 pm
With so many citizens financially stressed, many governments would: 1. Delay/cancel tax payment; 2. Refund tax payment; 3. Introduce emergency benefit; 4. Pay 50% to 80% of wage through employer subject to no firing. Measures to help employers would also run in parallel.

Introducing so many different measures within such a short time span, apart from being administratively difficult and costly, can be duplicative and confusing to the public. A better approach may be to introduce Basic Income Guarantee (BIG or GBI) instead. The most recent pilot basic Income program was undertaken in Canada, giving 4000 Ontario residents living in poverty C$17,000 a year or C$24,00 per couple. They can keep half of their income from any job they have. Federally it was suggested in April 17, 2018 that this would cost roughly C$43 billion a year. No doubt a lot of money for any government to afford, but drastic time creates drastic demand to be satisfied. In the end, the Canadian Government may find the bill to their present piecemeal and ad hoc measures not much less than C$43. If so, why not have this neat, clear-cut, and fair policy introduced, for other governments all over the world to follow as a good example?
I agree that the solution should be kept simple. In theory, we already have all the parts in place for welfare and unemployment insurance. To keep it simple we could stick with those. But we'd have to ramp up the bureaucracy to handle the swell of claims. I believe assistance should be means-tested, rather than a general benefit for everyone.
Among various Wage Subsidy programs, Canada would pay 75%, and Hong Kong would pay less, at 50%. Perhaps the shrewdest place in the world as far as free trading, democratic struggle, and wearing mask are concerned, Hong Kong's program is fraught with questions and challenge once announced. What about the (unethical?) wage reduction by employers after receiving the benefit for their employees? The Government has confirmed nothing can be done about that. What about those fired recently but earlier and are now unemployed? We shall take care of that later, not that they are less urgent. Would you as an employee give half to your boss? No? You are fired. Is it against the law to help your boss also in distress? No. it is ethical. No doubt you do not want to be fired. Besides, half wage is better than no wage, unless you can find another job somewhere else.

The relief programs should be kept simple, to keep administrative cost down. But it is more than that. They should be quick, even, universal, and fair. Drastic time requires drastic measures. Means test is slow and costly. Understandably, government are making panic moves. Short of predicting a depression, IMF has declared the approach of the worse recession since the 1930's. It was said that last month 1 in 7 is out of a job in the US. Enormous pressure is imposed on government to sprinkle money regardless of cost, but where? In my backyard, and that is the bottom line? The public have no one else to blame except itself if it would rather sit on its hands, moaning and groaning, because government is only as good as its people get. We should actively participate to find a way out. The firsts step, I would suggest, is to implement Basic Income Guarantee.
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by Newme »

THINK and research for yourself. Don’t go along with the herds who gullibly believe whatever illogical base-less fear-mongering.

Several reasons why this global shut down of economies (which is harming MANY) is an overreaction:

1) Each year, many die of flu - mostly elderly with compromised immune systems.
*2019-2020 season flu deaths: up to 62,000 in the US
That’s WAY more than covid.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/pr ... imates.htm
And previous years, it shows similar ranges:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html

2) As The video/testimony of a nurse said in this video, many deaths are being MISREPORTED as caused by covid-19 when they were never even tested for it. This is happening on a big scale.
ICU Nurse Whistle blower: Covid19 is Manufactured Crisis:
https://youtu.be/uGZ-DW5LVCs

https://youtu.be/a2vEPEXJVts

3) Tests have been found to be flawed - showing the same person testing positive & negative.
4) My sister & many others were denied a test.
5) Other countries have offered effective tests but the US declined - this and the above 3 points indicate that discovering the truth about this virus’s threat or lack of threat - is NOT genuinely desired. And all of the fear-mongering percentages from biased news are inaccurate - completely baseless without proper testing.

6) “As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK.”
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-conseq ... f-covid-19
Yet, my friend in London just told me police are kicking people out of parks/ public places. Why?

7) Sweden hasn’t shut down everything and yet is doing better than other countries.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/ ... omic-ruin/

8) Twelve medical experts whose opinions on the Coronavirus outbreak contradict the official narratives of the media:
https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12- ... rus-panic/
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by gad-fly »

Newme wrote: April 19th, 2020, 12:39 pm THINK and research for yourself. Don’t go along with the herds who gullibly believe whatever illogical base-less fear-mongering.

Several reasons why this global shut down of economies (which is harming MANY) is an overreaction:
The substantive shut-down of the global economy is an overreaction? Be that as it may, the shut-down cannot be pretended away or swept away. When it comes to a matter of life and death, many would not be too concerned about the difference of 1 in 100 and 1 in 10,000. Dichotomization is what most would follow psychologically.

The approaching Recession of the world economy is imminent. IMF has predicted the worst recession since the 1930's, and this is no fear-mongering. Indeed, this can be an understatement. Be prepared for the next Depression, and find out how Depression is defined. Wish I were wrong. In any way, stay calm to survive financially.
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by LuckyR »

Newme wrote: April 19th, 2020, 12:39 pm THINK and research for yourself. Don’t go along with the herds who gullibly believe whatever illogical base-less fear-mongering.

Several reasons why this global shut down of economies (which is harming MANY) is an overreaction:

1) Each year, many die of flu - mostly elderly with compromised immune systems.
*2019-2020 season flu deaths: up to 62,000 in the US
That’s WAY more than covid.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/pr ... imates.htm
And previous years, it shows similar ranges:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html

2) As The video/testimony of a nurse said in this video, many deaths are being MISREPORTED as caused by covid-19 when they were never even tested for it. This is happening on a big scale.
ICU Nurse Whistle blower: Covid19 is Manufactured Crisis:
https://youtu.be/uGZ-DW5LVCs

https://youtu.be/a2vEPEXJVts

3) Tests have been found to be flawed - showing the same person testing positive & negative.
4) My sister & many others were denied a test.
5) Other countries have offered effective tests but the US declined - this and the above 3 points indicate that discovering the truth about this virus’s threat or lack of threat - is NOT genuinely desired. And all of the fear-mongering percentages from biased news are inaccurate - completely baseless without proper testing.

6) “As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK.”
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-conseq ... f-covid-19
Yet, my friend in London just told me police are kicking people out of parks/ public places. Why?

7) Sweden hasn’t shut down everything and yet is doing better than other countries.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/ ... omic-ruin/

8) Twelve medical experts whose opinions on the Coronavirus outbreak contradict the official narratives of the media:
https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12- ... rus-panic/
1) You do understand that 62k is for the flu SEASON, ie 12 months, right? COVID has killed >44k in essentially one month.

2) Statistically it is not required to test for the virus to calculate the number of COVID deaths since as you pointed out in your #1, the number of flu deaths is predictable, the excess of Influenza Like Illness is COVID.

3) See #2

4) True

5) VERY true, the true numbers are even higher. See #4

6) You are misunderstanding a technical differentiation between UK governmental bodies having to do with statistics on: the confirmation of low overall mortality rates, greater clinical awareness, and a specific and sensitive laboratory test, the availability of which continued to increase. The statement said "the need to have a national, coordinated response remains" and added "this is being met by the government’s COVID-19 response". This meant cases of COVID-19 are no longer managed by HCID treatment centres only.

7) Sweden has a COVID death per million rate of 175, compared to Denmark 64, Norway of 34 and Finland at 25 (the others of which did lockdowns).

8 ) The jury system confirms it is easy to find twelve idiots.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by gad-fly »

gad-fly wrote: April 20th, 2020, 5:10 pm
Newme wrote: April 19th, 2020, 12:39 pm THINK and research for yourself. Don’t go along with the herds who gullibly believe whatever illogical base-less fear-mongering.

Several reasons why this global shut down of economies (which is harming MANY) is an overreaction:
The substantive shut-down of the global economy is an overreaction? Be that as it may, the shut-down cannot be pretended away or swept away. When it comes to a matter of life and death, many would not be too concerned about the difference of 1 in 100 and 1 in 10,000. Dichotomization is what most would follow psychologically.

The approaching Recession of the world economy is imminent. IMF has predicted the worst recession since the 1930's, and this is no fear-mongering. Indeed, this can be an understatement. Be prepared for the next Depression, and find out how Depression is defined. Wish I were wrong. In any way, stay calm to survive financially.
It is excessive to describe the global economy as shutting down, or substantially shutting down. With no international agreement, and not even recommendation from WHO, each regime takes measures it deems appropriate. China, for example, shut down Wuhan and then the province, but never the whole country. Global air travel has been vastly reduced, step by step, but never terminated. Only history will tell whether reaction from different regimes is over the top, but even that will be subject to argument of "What if?".

Suffice to say that each regime should be trusted to act with the best intention based on public interest, given the circumstances known and estimated. Some may overreact; some under; some lucky enough to be right on. This comment also applies to people under the regime.

Back to the title: Should Basic Income be introduced by this pandemic. I think it should, on the argument that first of all: Yes, the timing is right. What better than during a economic crisis, when it is needed most. It is affordable comparatively. Budget of $43 billion is dwarfed by $73 billion wage subsidy in Canada. Reactive measures such as Wage Subsidy are piecemeal, uneven, and unfair. How about those unemployed? They are urgent too. We know, but they have to wait, because it is one at a time.

But No, the timing is bad. because Basic Income Guarantee is not reactive. When so many voices are heard shouting for help, how can you keep a cool head? When some needs $X, some needs $Y, how can you say: each will receive $X, because X is smaller than Y, and X is what we can afford? If not, the rule, unfortunately, must be: First come first. Regrettable? Yes, but we only progress by trial and error, ever so slowly.
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by LuckyR »

Newme wrote: April 19th, 2020, 12:39 pm THINK and research for yourself. Don’t go along with the herds who gullibly believe whatever illogical base-less fear-mongering.

Several reasons why this global shut down of economies (which is harming MANY) is an overreaction:

1) Each year, many die of flu - mostly elderly with compromised immune systems.
*2019-2020 season flu deaths: up to 62,000 in the US
That’s WAY more than covid.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/pr ... imates.htm
And previous years, it shows similar ranges:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html
In the ten days since I answered this stuff the first time, US deaths are now more than 62,000, in less than 2 months, compared to flu deaths in 12 months.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by Newme »

gad-fly wrote: April 20th, 2020, 5:10 pm
Newme wrote: April 19th, 2020, 12:39 pm THINK and research for yourself. Don’t go along with the herds who gullibly believe whatever illogical base-less fear-mongering.

Several reasons why this global shut down of economies (which is harming MANY) is an overreaction:
The substantive shut-down of the global economy is an overreaction? Be that as it may, the shut-down cannot be pretended away or swept away. When it comes to a matter of life and death, many would not be too concerned about the difference of 1 in 100 and 1 in 10,000. Dichotomization is what most would follow psychologically.

The approaching Recession of the world economy is imminent. IMF has predicted the worst recession since the 1930's, and this is no fear-mongering. Indeed, this can be an understatement. Be prepared for the next Depression, and find out how Depression is defined. Wish I were wrong. In any way, stay calm to survive financially.
True the shut down has happened but mainly because people allowed their fears to override reason and herd mentality. If enough people wake up, the effects won’t be as bad. Gradually they are.
“Empty is the argument of the philosopher which does not relieve any human suffering.” - Epicurus
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Re: Should Basic Income Guarantee be introduced to tackle the present Pandemic e n

Post by Newme »

gad-fly wrote: April 30th, 2020, 12:00 pm
gad-fly wrote: April 20th, 2020, 5:10 pm

The substantive shut-down of the global economy is an overreaction? Be that as it may, the shut-down cannot be pretended away or swept away. When it comes to a matter of life and death, many would not be too concerned about the difference of 1 in 100 and 1 in 10,000. Dichotomization is what most would follow psychologically.

The approaching Recession of the world economy is imminent. IMF has predicted the worst recession since the 1930's, and this is no fear-mongering. Indeed, this can be an understatement. Be prepared for the next Depression, and find out how Depression is defined. Wish I were wrong. In any way, stay calm to survive financially.
It is excessive to describe the global economy as shutting down, or substantially shutting down. With no international agreement, and not even recommendation from WHO, each regime takes measures it deems appropriate. China, for example, shut down Wuhan and then the province, but never the whole country. Global air travel has been vastly reduced, step by step, but never terminated. Only history will tell whether reaction from different regimes is over the top, but even that will be subject to argument of "What if?".

Suffice to say that each regime should be trusted to act with the best intention based on public interest, given the circumstances known and estimated. Some may overreact; some under; some lucky enough to be right on. This comment also applies to people under the regime.

Back to the title: Should Basic Income be introduced by this pandemic. I think it should, on the argument that first of all: Yes, the timing is right. What better than during a economic crisis, when it is needed most. It is affordable comparatively. Budget of $43 billion is dwarfed by $73 billion wage subsidy in Canada. Reactive measures such as Wage Subsidy are piecemeal, uneven, and unfair. How about those unemployed? They are urgent too. We know, but they have to wait, because it is one at a time.

But No, the timing is bad. because Basic Income Guarantee is not reactive. When so many voices are heard shouting for help, how can you keep a cool head? When some needs $X, some needs $Y, how can you say: each will receive $X, because X is smaller than Y, and X is what we can afford? If not, the rule, unfortunately, must be: First come first. Regrettable? Yes, but we only progress by trial and error, ever so slowly.
Where’s all this free money coming from? What costly strings attached?
As my teacher had posted in his classroom: “There is no free lunch.”
“Empty is the argument of the philosopher which does not relieve any human suffering.” - Epicurus
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2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021