Property Right and the Aftermath.

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Sculptor1
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Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by Sculptor1 »

There is no continent on earth except maybe Antarctic where the land has been stolen from earlier populations.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by Sculptor1 »

Whoops.
There is no continent on earth except maybe Antarctic where the land has NOT been stolen from earlier populations.
gad-fly
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Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by gad-fly »

Sculptor1 wrote: July 28th, 2020, 2:52 pm
Name one place on earth where the people have settled without **** someone else over!
Homo sapiens first emerged in Africa, where wild life had already existed. You may take "someone else over" as any other organism. Even so, there is no need for the homo to wage a war of extermination. Find a niche, settle down, and do whatever necessary to survive and flourish. The same applies to when those other organisms happen to be human, unless the terrain has been fully saturated. Today, Australia and Canada welcome the settlement of immigrants, together with whatever property right they may acquire. There are Australians and kangaroos around? Fine.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by Sculptor1 »

gad-fly wrote: July 28th, 2020, 5:07 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: July 28th, 2020, 2:52 pm
Name one place on earth where the people have settled without **** someone else over!
Homo sapiens first emerged in Africa, where wild life had already existed. You may take "someone else over" as any other organism. Even so, there is no need for the homo to wage a war of extermination. Find a niche, settle down, and do whatever necessary to survive and flourish. The same applies to when those other organisms happen to be human, unless the terrain has been fully saturated. Today, Australia and Canada welcome the settlement of immigrants, together with whatever property right they may acquire. There are Australians and kangaroos around? Fine.
It might have escaped your attention by Canada, Australia, and most of the world was taken off aborigines (original settlers) by white men, and with force.
Same with the rest of the Americas, all of Africa and much of Asia. The reast of Asia in no longer in the hands of any aboriginals and has all changed hands by force.
gad-fly
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Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by gad-fly »

Sculptor1 wrote: July 28th, 2020, 5:45 pm
It might have escaped your attention by Canada, Australia, and most of the world was taken off aborigines (original settlers) by white men, and with force.
Same with the rest of the Americas, all of Africa and much of Asia. The reast of Asia in no longer in the hands of any aboriginals and has all changed hands by force.
The history of colonialism has not escaped my attention, but I am not about to discuss it here.

Property right can pass along from one owner to another. In most cases, no blessing or approval is required from the third party. The process may involve trade, gift, succession, and inheritance. The first can be exemplified in the Louisiana and Alaskan Purchase. More violent and immoral process may also be involved, as in the spoils of war, indemnity, stealing, and plunder, in which case the acquiescence of the the third party may be found necessary. Hence the Aftermath as mentioned in the title.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by Sculptor1 »

gad-fly wrote: July 29th, 2020, 1:06 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 28th, 2020, 5:45 pm
It might have escaped your attention by Canada, Australia, and most of the world was taken off aborigines (original settlers) by white men, and with force.
Same with the rest of the Americas, all of Africa and much of Asia. The reast of Asia in no longer in the hands of any aboriginals and has all changed hands by force.
The history of colonialism has not escaped my attention, but I am not about to discuss it here.

Property right can pass along from one owner to another. In most cases, no blessing or approval is required from the third party. The process may involve trade, gift, succession, and inheritance. The first can be exemplified in the Louisiana and Alaskan Purchase. More violent and immoral process may also be involved, as in the spoils of war, indemnity, stealing, and plunder, in which case the acquiescence of the the third party may be found necessary. Hence the Aftermath as mentioned in the title.
Since all the land on earth has been at some point stolen from the original settlers, then all agreements and grants of land are based on that theft.
This is why Marx asked "What is property; property is theft"

You can deny the fact by refusing to "talk about it", but you'll not convince anyone until you embrace the truth.
Land rights are theft.
gad-fly
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Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by gad-fly »

Sculptor1 wrote: July 29th, 2020, 4:48 pm
Since all the land on earth has been at some point stolen from the original settlers, then all agreements and grants of land are based on that theft.
This is why Marx asked "What is property; property is theft"

You can deny the fact by refusing to "talk about it", but you'll not convince anyone until you embrace the truth.
Land rights are theft.
I take you to mean the original settlers as the first settlers, when property right was non-existent until then. Most of them are gone. Property right can be acquired, but not held in dead hand.

Property is theft? This is an idea held by many thinkers. Are you contributing to the "Aftermath" of the title?
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Sculptor1
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Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by Sculptor1 »

gad-fly wrote: July 29th, 2020, 8:35 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: July 29th, 2020, 4:48 pm
Since all the land on earth has been at some point stolen from the original settlers, then all agreements and grants of land are based on that theft.
This is why Marx asked "What is property; property is theft"

You can deny the fact by refusing to "talk about it", but you'll not convince anyone until you embrace the truth.
Land rights are theft.
I take you to mean the original settlers as the first settlers, when property right was non-existent until then. Most of them are gone. Property right can be acquired, but not held in dead hand.

Property is theft? This is an idea held by many thinkers. Are you contributing to the "Aftermath" of the title?
You've not made clear what you mean by it.
Gertie
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Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by Gertie »

gad-fly wrote: July 29th, 2020, 8:35 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: July 29th, 2020, 4:48 pm
Since all the land on earth has been at some point stolen from the original settlers, then all agreements and grants of land are based on that theft.
This is why Marx asked "What is property; property is theft"

You can deny the fact by refusing to "talk about it", but you'll not convince anyone until you embrace the truth.
Land rights are theft.
I take you to mean the original settlers as the first settlers, when property right was non-existent until then. Most of them are gone. Property right can be acquired, but not held in dead hand.
So Neil Armstrong owns the moon by right. This is a fact. Regardless of all laws, agreements or other considerations, and he can pass it down to his kids. Blimey.
gad-fly
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Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by gad-fly »

Gertie wrote: July 30th, 2020, 5:06 pm Neil Armstrong owns the moon by right. This is a fact. Regardless of all laws, agreements or other considerations, and he can pass it down to his kids. Blimey.
I cannot remember him making a claim of the moon for himself or for the USA. If he did, it would be an interesting aftermath. Anyone coming after may be accused by someone here of stealing his property.
Gee
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Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by Gee »

Sculptor1 wrote: July 29th, 2020, 4:48 pm Since all the land on earth has been at some point stolen from the original settlers, then all agreements and grants of land are based on that theft.
This is why Marx asked "What is property; property is theft"

You can deny the fact by refusing to "talk about it", but you'll not convince anyone until you embrace the truth.
Land rights are theft.
So you are saying that no people ever lost their land due to volcanoes, floods, fires, tsunamis, etc., or maybe disease?

Are you also assuming that Earth first evolved fully settled with the "original settlers"?

Who is denying facts?
Gee
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Location: Michigan, US

Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by Gee »

Gertie wrote: July 30th, 2020, 5:06 pm
gad-fly wrote: July 29th, 2020, 8:35 pm I take you to mean the original settlers as the first settlers, when property right was non-existent until then. Most of them are gone. Property right can be acquired, but not held in dead hand.
So Neil Armstrong owns the moon by right. This is a fact. Regardless of all laws, agreements or other considerations, and he can pass it down to his kids. Blimey.
You usually make more sense than this. What "fact" could you possibly be talking about?
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Sculptor1
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Re: Property Right and the Aftermath.

Post by Sculptor1 »

Gee wrote: August 1st, 2020, 5:11 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 29th, 2020, 4:48 pm Since all the land on earth has been at some point stolen from the original settlers, then all agreements and grants of land are based on that theft.
This is why Marx asked "What is property; property is theft"

You can deny the fact by refusing to "talk about it", but you'll not convince anyone until you embrace the truth.
Land rights are theft.
So you are saying that no people ever lost their land due to volcanoes, floods, fires, tsunamis, etc., or maybe disease?

Are you also assuming that Earth first evolved fully settled with the "original settlers"?

Who is denying facts?
Yahn!
I'm saying neither, and neither is implied by what I said.
PLONK!
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