The Origin of the Government

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GE Morton
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Re: The Origin of the Government

Post by GE Morton »

LuckyR wrote: October 1st, 2020, 5:59 pm But if the rabble balked at the direction of the "Leader", what then? My guess is either suddenly there is enforcement or the Leader is out or the Leader buckles (which is an example of poor "governance", not it's absence).
Yes. If the tribe loses confidence in their chief (e.g., because because he led them into a costly battle they lost), he will be replaced, typically at the behest or with the approval of the elders of the tribe.
Belindi
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Re: The Origin of the Government

Post by Belindi »

The state evolved from sheer force of strength to democratic representative government. How it happened is a matter of history and historical details. Whether one is a right wing or a left wing historian one is presented with hard evidence which is that there is always an elite man or group of men in all societies and always has been.

At this present time the state evolves. Right now and world wide democracy fades while force of strength becomes the cause of statehood.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: The Origin of the Government

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Pattern-chaser wrote: September 30th, 2020, 8:17 am I may be being naive here, but doesn't "government" simply grow out of "tribal elders"? Isn't it just a bigger version of the way family, then tribes (and so on) govern themselves? Or, if we have a king instead of a council, isn't that just an extension of the father's role within a typical family?

Isn't it basically that simple? 🤔

pearlrik wrote: September 30th, 2020, 5:10 pm Yeah it is that simple, but if you want to describe it in detail, a step by step approach, it becomes very hard to do.


Yes, it does. But I think that's because "government" is a general term. It describes the means of government, but that means it is different in every country. If you want to go into detail, you can no longer stay with a global view. You have to focus on one particular country. Then you get a more detailed perspective, but only for the country you're concentrating on. Isn't this why it's "very hard to do"?
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h_k_s
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Re: The Origin of the Government

Post by h_k_s »

Ecurb wrote: October 1st, 2020, 6:59 pm
h_k_s wrote: October 1st, 2020, 3:21 pm

Ultimately someone like Sargon in Akkad would have come along and conquered them all eventually.
Probably, or someone like the British Empire.

By the way, Sargon reigned in about 2300 BCE. The complex irrigation projects and military development that suggest "government" were 3000 or more years earlier. Written history demonstrating "governments' in Mesopotamia began about 3000 BCE. Sargon is often credited with forming the first Empire, which is different from the first government.
You are correct, thank you.

His is the only name we can trust using. And we do know his rule was imposed and maintained by force.

Essentially this warlord was a robber baron, collecting taxes in gold and silver and copper and bronze, plus whatever else he wanted, like ivory, grain, cattle, sheep, etc.

The various Egyptian kings' lists are probably fake. That's why I refer to Sargon. He killed his king, who was probably a good king, usurped his power, then conquered the neighboring cities. An early Napoleon or Hitler.

He did it just because he could, sort of like an early Bill Clinton.
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Re: The Origin of the Government

Post by popeye1945 »

pearlrik wrote: September 28th, 2020, 1:56 pm If I search for the theory of 'the origin of the government', or the 'origin of the state', mostly only 4 theories come up.

1. The Force theory - "The state was born of force".
2. Evolutionary Theory- developed out of the early family.
3. The divine right theory- "Divine right to rule".
4. The Social Contract theory- the state arose out of a voluntary act of free people.

I looked into each one of them and am I the only one that is wholly unsatisfied with these theories?

Has there really been no philosopher that has come up with a better explanation?

And what do the people of this forum think of it? What is your idea of how the state/government arose?
Pearirik, All human creations are biological extensions, and so not unlike the expressions of the arts. When considering philosophical matters it is needless to isolate, indeed undesirable to do so in matters of our general reality. The principles which are found to apply, often apply across the board.
The formations of the societies of creatures have this similarity, they are expressions of the natures of these said creatures, apart of their beauty and complexity. The more complex the creature, the more complex the creations of the said creatures become. As there has tended to be an evolving complexity of the orders of being, so to the complexity of their creations. Since biological extensions is what government and the state are, I would recommend to find news source of human development in the form of politics that one should look to the biology of the said creature, in this case humanity.
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