How to use the US election system to stage a coup

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Steve3007
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by Steve3007 »

Terrapin Station wrote:Re pardoning, how does that amount to power to do things in your view? What would the practical upshot of any of that be that would affect anyone's lives?
In my view, one of the ways that it amounts to power to do things is that it allows the pardoner to do deals with the pardonee. If I had the power to place anybody I chose beyond the reach of the law I could make it clear to them that if they do something that would help me, but which might get them in trouble with the laws, I'd make that trouble go away. I'd demonstrate my likelihood to do that by example, if necessary.
Steve3007
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by Steve3007 »

Terrapin Station wrote:Nuclear strikes actually have to go through a bunch of different people--joint chiefs of staff, secretary of defense, etc.
Yes, and as baker pointed out, the free speech absolutist view is that the only people with moral responsibility in that chain are those whose actions are directly causally connected to the launching of the missiles with no human brains in between; those guys who turn those keys simultaneously (or whatever it is that they do). Yes? Their actions (using the word "action" in the sense that you've used it in this context in the past) cannot be said to in any degree be caused by anything, yes?
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by Terrapin Station »

Steve3007 wrote: January 4th, 2021, 9:00 am
Terrapin Station wrote:Nuclear strikes actually have to go through a bunch of different people--joint chiefs of staff, secretary of defense, etc.
Yes, and as baker pointed out, the free speech absolutist view is that the only people with moral responsibility in that chain are those whose actions are directly causally connected to the launching of the missiles with no human brains in between; those guys who turn those keys simultaneously (or whatever it is that they do). Yes? Their actions (using the word "action" in the sense that you've used it in this context in the past) cannot be said to in any degree be caused by anything, yes?
"As baker pointed out"--I already pointed out that that was my view long ago.

So yes to your questions.
baker
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by baker »

So if a president of a country stages a military coup -- he is completely innocent?!
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by Terrapin Station »

baker wrote: January 4th, 2021, 10:13 am So if a president of a country stages a military coup -- he is completely innocent?!
What exactly are we saying the president did in the scenario?
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by baker »

He ordered the destruction of the universe, you anarchist!
Steve3007
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by Steve3007 »

Now it's looking likely that the Republicans have lost control of the Senate as a result of the Georgia Runoff, it looks like Trump is hoping this makes it more likely that Biden's victory will be overturned by Pence and the gang today:
Trump wrote:THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, OUR COUNTRY, NEEDS THE PRESIDENCY MORE THAN EVER BEFORE - THE POWER OF THE VETO. STAY STRONG!"
So I guess his antics relating to Georgia Republicans were perhaps deliberately aimed at losing the Senate so as to make it more important to keep a Republican president. He has a really interesting approach to politics. I'm going to miss him.
Steve3007
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by Steve3007 »

So they're storming the Capitol I hear. The coup begins in ernest.
baker
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by baker »

Post a link. I don't want to look it up!
Steve3007
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by Steve3007 »

Turn on the news!

Trump has used his false claims of fraud to whip up his supporters into storming the Capitol building. The last time this happened was when the British did it in 1814.
baker
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by baker »

Jesus, this is surreal!!
Steve3007
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by Steve3007 »

It reminds me a bit of the collapse of the Soviet Union with Boris Yeltsin sitting on tanks, back in 1990.

Anyway, apparently the Capitol building has been secured now, but not before Trump's mob got right into the Senate chamber. They're heavily armed and it seems unlikely that Trump, his son, Guiliani and the gang will refrain from whipping them up to further mayhem unless they're stopped. It looks like this guy urgently needs to be removed from office now.
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LuckyR
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by LuckyR »

I guess Twitter averted the coup today...
"As usual... it depends."
Steve3007
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by Steve3007 »

I suspect that Twitter have helped him a bit by giving him 12 hours to calm down before saying anything else on his own Twitter feed. He's managed to get a message out from the Whitehouse via another Twitter feed finally accepting half of the reality. (The half in which Biden/Harris take office but not the half in which they were fairly elected.)

I guess where it goes from here in terms of the survival of US democracy (assuming it survives the next 13 days) depends on whether Trump-ism gradually fades as those crazy supporters go back to day-to-day life or whether the baton is passed on to another would-be populist dictator who has the political savvy to take it further than Trump did. He's certainly given potential successors a taste of what's possible using the system as currently set up.
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Sculptor1
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Re: How to use the US election system to stage a coup

Post by Sculptor1 »

ORANGE FACE: YELLOW BELLY

When Trump was inciting the riot with his speech, it said we are gonna walk to Capitol Hill, and I'll be there with you.
Where was the fat man-baby coward? Too scared to face the crowds and the police!
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