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Who is your favorite criminal from history?

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Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Jesus (executed)
2
15%
Socrates (executed)
1
8%
William Wallace (executed)
0
No votes
John Brown (executed)
1
8%
Martin Luther King Jr. (assassinated)
1
8%
Mahatma Gandhi (assassinated)
1
8%
other (please specify in replies)
7
54%
 
Total votes: 13

AverageBozo
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Re: Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Post by AverageBozo »

Terrapin Station wrote: August 24th, 2021, 4:58 pm As a list of criminals, this leaves a lot to be desired. The choices should have been along the lines of Jack the Ripper, Charles Manson, Jesse James, etc.
Maybe Scott meant to ask who your favorite executed/assassinated person from history is.
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LuckyR
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Re: Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Post by LuckyR »

Terrapin Station wrote: August 24th, 2021, 4:58 pm As a list of criminals, this leaves a lot to be desired. The choices should have been along the lines of Jack the Ripper, Charles Manson, Jesse James, etc.
It depends if by favorite, one means most entertaining vs most admired.
"As usual... it depends."
Neil Wallace
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Re: Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Post by Neil Wallace »

Scott wrote: February 16th, 2021, 4:17 pm Who is your favorite criminal from history? Why?

Do you also think that person was the most heroic criminal from history? If not, who do you think was the most heroic criminal from history?

If you were put in the same or very similar circumstances as these criminals, would you hope to make the same choices as some or all of these criminals? Why or why not? What role does bravery play in your answer, meaning in your hypothetical choice about whether or not to follow in the criminal footsteps of these criminals? In other words, if you were hypothetically a much more courageous person how would that change your answer if at all?
Probably Eve.

Hell no, I'd just stay in paradise and do as I was told.
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Scott
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Re: Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Post by Scott »

Scott wrote: February 18th, 2021, 6:39 pm To summarize the additional suggestions to add to our list of possible favorite criminals, I noted these nominations:

DB Cooper
, nominated by @HJCarden

Spartacus, nominated by @Sculptor1

Johannes Kepler and his mum, nominated by @Steve3007

Georges-Jacques Danton, nominated by @LuckyR


If I missed any other nominations, let me know! :)


I also asked a similar question on Twitter and recieved the following additional suggestions of criminals via Twitter:

- Jesse James

- Dr OYENUSI

- Bridget Bishop


Finally, while I didn't include him in the original poll, I think Henry David Thoreau deserves a mention, especially considering he is literally the author of Civil Disobedience.
Since the above quoted post, the following additional nominations have been made for favorite criminal:
Sculptor1 wrote: February 18th, 2021, 6:51 pm Galileo would be front and centre.
What about Thomas Paine????
Count Lucanor wrote: February 18th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Scott wrote: February 16th, 2021, 4:17 pm Who is your favorite criminal from history? Why?
It's a tough pick. To my mind come now Giordano Bruno or Che Guevara. Why? They showed courage when pursuing the right causes.
BobS wrote: February 20th, 2021, 2:33 am I nominate Frederick Douglass. As Trump says, "he's done an amazing job."

I hope he's not disqualified on the technicality that he wasn't a criminal. I assume that in the South his running away made him one, and just not a piece of stray property.
Fellowmater wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 7:23 am Not heroic but I think he's cool. Pablo Escobar raided the supreme court with tanks and destroyed evidence against him he got the country to let him build his own prison because they feared him, no one even comes close to don Pablo. Please don't judge me.

Any other names that would be good to add to the list?
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Chelsea Manning
Julien Assange
Walter Benjamin
mahfouz
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Re: Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Post by mahfouz »

If perusing Philosophy forums on company time is illegal than I will nominate myself as my favorite criminal.

I voted for John Brown in the poll. Cloudsplitter (Russell Banks) is a great novelization of his life and it left me in a dark funk for weeks after reading it.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Sculptor1 wrote: January 15th, 2022, 1:28 pm Chelsea Manning
Julien Assange
Walter Benjamin
And Edward Snowden, of course.
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
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Astro Cat
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Re: Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Post by Astro Cat »

Hypatia. I would have said Emmy Noether, but as far as I know, she wasn't a criminal. I looked up to her reputation for using her mind during a time that women weren't expected or celebrated for doing so.
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Oliver Krieger
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Re: Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Post by Oliver Krieger »

Do we ironically value legal provisions, and decisions which put our true heroes at a disadvantage ? I suggest, that we continue to do that, but also keep in mind in which places they currently suffer most.

so i nominate anna politkovskaya, and alexej nawalny.

That philosophy otherwise takes up that bad habit of popular western culture, of inverting morality, by validating, or cultifying, or euphemizing true criminals and evil villains (like hitler, pablo escobar, and marilyn manson), to make that bad habit good, by turning it into a satire, as i understand this thread to the widest degree, is honorable.

That's a critical point, because it helps to publicly impart a true sense and purpose of public philosophy, to cultivate a positive, constructive method.
Such methods, like satire, help to approach the matter of socio-moral distortion.

In german society, the inversion of morality, be it seriously or satirically and ironically, and the compilation of "favourite movie villain" hitlists is unusual, although its being understood usually, as logic under inverted precursors. So, at my place, Nawalny, Douglass, Sokrates and Politkovskaya would not be considered criminals, not even jokingly.

Scott, in your "Does Society need Prisons ?"-Thread, i intend to count the times you put the term "criminal" into direct relation with the term " compassion". I know, its a decent amount of suggestive connections, for a political cause, and i strongly dislike the question, of whether it is good, or necessary, to deal with legal matters under such contradictory terms like "criminals, who have to be treated compassionate", or "favourite criminal", because i strongly like satire.

anyways, not everybody shares my sense of satire.

You argue, that Nawalny ain't history ? I defy you: He's gonna write it !
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LuckyR
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Re: Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Post by LuckyR »

Oliver Krieger wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:56 am Do we ironically value legal provisions, and decisions which put our true heroes at a disadvantage ? I suggest, that we continue to do that, but also keep in mind in which places they currently suffer most.

so i nominate anna politkovskaya, and alexej nawalny.

That philosophy otherwise takes up that bad habit of popular western culture, of inverting morality, by validating, or cultifying, or euphemizing true criminals and evil villains (like hitler, pablo escobar, and marilyn manson), to make that bad habit good, by turning it into a satire, as i understand this thread to the widest degree, is honorable.

That's a critical point, because it helps to publicly impart a true sense and purpose of public philosophy, to cultivate a positive, constructive method.
Such methods, like satire, help to approach the matter of socio-moral distortion.

In german society, the inversion of morality, be it seriously or satirically and ironically, and the compilation of "favourite movie villain" hitlists is unusual, although its being understood usually, as logic under inverted precursors. So, at my place, Nawalny, Douglass, Sokrates and Politkovskaya would not be considered criminals, not even jokingly.

Scott, in your "Does Society need Prisons ?"-Thread, i intend to count the times you put the term "criminal" into direct relation with the term " compassion". I know, its a decent amount of suggestive connections, for a political cause, and i strongly dislike the question, of whether it is good, or necessary, to deal with legal matters under such contradictory terms like "criminals, who have to be treated compassionate", or "favourite criminal", because i strongly like satire.

anyways, not everybody shares my sense of satire.

You argue, that Nawalny ain't history ? I defy you: He's gonna write it !
I am a little confused. Do you consider Navalny a criminal? If not, why is he your choice? If so, how is he substantively different from Georges-Jacques Danton, Frederick Douglas or Che Guevara?
"As usual... it depends."
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Oliver Krieger
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Re: Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Post by Oliver Krieger »

LuckyR :
"I am a little confused. Do you consider Navalny a criminal? If not, why is he your choice? If so, how is he substantively different from Georges-Jacques Danton, Frederick Douglas or Che Guevara? "

As i just wrote, not everybody shares my sense of irony, and satire.

I consider their reflection, as means of public philosophy, to approach phenomena like fate, conviction, and injustice, coupled with morality and heroism, as honorable, and the inversion of morality to be necessary, especially in societies, who suffer from vast prison-populations, weaponization of communication, distribution of weapons, and prevalence of crime. given these severe societal conditions, philosophy sure got a hell of a hard time, to make everything right.

The victim, upon whose shoulders only lasted the perpetrator, for the last second of its life, appears to become a minor issue, compared to the imprisoned atlas, upon whose shoulders stretches hieron and moloch.
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Samana Johann
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Re: Who is your favorite criminal from history?

Post by Samana Johann »

Probably the most famous criminal and his story: Angulimala: A Murderer's Road to Sainthood, and of course no approval of wrongs or martyr glorification. A story of best and real end.
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