Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

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Steve3007
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

Post by Steve3007 »

It depends what you consider to be compelling.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Aren't there right-wing views to be seen pretty much everywhere? How many nations entertain left-wing sympathies these days? Not very many, I don't think.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

Post by Sy Borg »

Robert66 wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 1:54 pmThe real shame of it all for me is, to echo Sy, that we are everywhere now being fed a very poor media diet.

Where are the compelling right wing views to be found?
Or, rather, where are the compelling views per se?

I am struggling to remember the last time a right/left political issue was much discussed in the public sphere. Rather, it seems to be largely about Trump and mission to save the US from an imaginary paedo cabal and Trump's failed coup attempt.

What is conservative today? It's hard to imagine that Republicans were the same party that once focused on national debt. GWB inherited a surplus from Bill Clinton and, after eight years, had created the US's (then) largest ever deficit. Obama slowed the debt for eight years and then Trump rapidly accelerated it again. In light of this, talking about "small government" makes little sense.

It seems that Republicans don't know what they stand for any more - or at least they talk about it less than they simply follow whatever Trump says. To be fair, his achievements in office were peerless, having done far more in office to enrich his family and work on his golf handicap than any POTUS before him.
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Robert66
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

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Pattern-chaser wrote: February 23rd, 2021, 6:24 am
Robert66 wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 1:54 pm Where are the compelling right wing views to be found?
In these only-just-post-Trump days, I think the answer is "Everywhere!".
I see what you mean, Pattern-chaser. Some have been compelled to don horns and raid the Capitol even. Its just that I haven't been persuaded in the slightest by a right wing argument for ages.

Maybe persuasive would be a better word to use than compelling.
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Robert66
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

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'It seems that Republicans don't know what they stand for any more - or at least they talk about it less'

That is what I'm talking about - some of them surely do know what they stand for. Let's hear from them. Come on - what would a great America actually be like, under a Republican government? Any takers?
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

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Robert66 wrote: February 26th, 2021, 6:45 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote: February 23rd, 2021, 6:24 am
Robert66 wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 1:54 pm Where are the compelling right wing views to be found?
In these only-just-post-Trump days, I think the answer is "Everywhere!".
I see what you mean, Pattern-chaser. Some have been compelled to don horns and raid the Capitol even. Its just that I haven't been persuaded in the slightest by a right wing argument for ages.

Maybe persuasive would be a better word to use than compelling.
Oh. 😊 Yes. I see what you mean, now. 😊 Personally, I have never encountered a convincing or compelling right-wing argument. However you frame it, it seems to come out 'greed, greed, me, me, I-will-take-it-from-you-so-that-I-can-have-it'.


Robert66 wrote: February 26th, 2021, 6:50 pm 'It seems that Republicans don't know what they stand for any more - or at least they talk about it less'

That is what I'm talking about - some of them surely do know what they stand for. Let's hear from them. Come on - what would a great America actually be like, under a Republican government? Any takers?
A "great" America? Wow, you creative types are amazing, the things you can come up with! A great America. 🤔 Whoever woulda thoughta that? 🤔 Just wow.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

Post by Sculptor1 »

News Media owns the Australian government.
In fact as many of us in the UK know, that since Murcoch's News Group took over most of the papers in the UK, Murdoch has basically mandated each PM since the late 1970s.
Each party leader has had to go cap-in-hand to Ruprick. And of you are wondering how Trump got where he did, you might ask yourself who owns Fox Media.
Australia was the first in line for Murdoch's empire.
So whilst FB was able to, at first, to call their bluff, someone has pointed out to Zuckernberg the smell of coffee, and FB has folded.
This is a sad day for freedom of speech, now FB is going to have to be forced to link the news AND they are going to have to pay for it too.
It's like being told to eat your poison and being made to pay for it.
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

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Robert66 wrote: February 26th, 2021, 6:50 pm 'It seems that Republicans don't know what they stand for any more - or at least they talk about it less'

That is what I'm talking about - some of them surely do know what they stand for. Let's hear from them. Come on - what would a great America actually be like, under a Republican government? Any takers?
The republicans are clueless since, Rupert Murdoch has forgotten to remind them recently what they are supposed to stand for.
He'll get round to it in time for the next Presidential. He probably wants to see how his protege, Trump, is doing first.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Sculptor1 wrote: February 27th, 2021, 9:12 am News Media owns the Australian government.
In fact as many of us in the UK know, that since Murcoch's News Group took over most of the papers in the UK, Murdoch has basically mandated each PM since the late 1970s.

Yes, this justifies my position, of total support for the national government involved. Unelected international business enterprises cannot be allowed to extend their dominance, and that can only be prevented by taking positive action now, while we still can. [Or am I too late with that sentiment? Is it already too late?] So, even if FB are right, and the Oz government wrong, I still support the latter, for reasons I consider to be over-riding.
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Pattern-chaser wrote: February 27th, 2021, 9:18 am
Sculptor1 wrote: February 27th, 2021, 9:12 am News Media owns the Australian government.
In fact as many of us in the UK know, that since Murcoch's News Group took over most of the papers in the UK, Murdoch has basically mandated each PM since the late 1970s.

Yes, this justifies my position, of total support for the national government involved. Unelected international business enterprises cannot be allowed to extend their dominance, and that can only be prevented by taking positive action now, while we still can. [Or am I too late with that sentiment? Is it already too late?] So, even if FB are right, and the Oz government wrong, I still support the latter, for reasons I consider to be over-riding.
What possible reason?
It is laughable to think you have bought into their narritice of free speech upon which the ozzie parliament is framing this discussion.

What in effect is happening, is that previously FB gave people the free choice to link any news stories they chose.
NOW the new normal is that FB have to pay for Rupert Murdoch's opinion to be spread.
Well **** that.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

Post by Sy Borg »

Pattern-chaser wrote: February 27th, 2021, 9:18 am
Sculptor1 wrote: February 27th, 2021, 9:12 am News Media owns the Australian government.
In fact as many of us in the UK know, that since Murcoch's News Group took over most of the papers in the UK, Murdoch has basically mandated each PM since the late 1970s.

Yes, this justifies my position, of total support for the national government involved. Unelected international business enterprises cannot be allowed to extend their dominance, and that can only be prevented by taking positive action now, while we still can. [Or am I too late with that sentiment? Is it already too late?] So, even if FB are right, and the Oz government wrong, I still support the latter, for reasons I consider to be over-riding.
You are far too late. Murdoch has controlled Australian politics since the 1970s and his grip has tightened decade by decade.

So your support for the "Australian government" here is simply a vote to strengthen Murdoch's control over Australia.

As mentioned earlier, we can see the results of his control over the US and the UK, having done more to damage those nations more than China, Russia or the Middle East combined.

Parasites are harder to see than overt predators, but they can harm and kill you just the same. In terms of threat to Australia, Murdoch very much dwarfs Zuckerberg. News Corp is the one with the monopoly.
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Robert66
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

Post by Robert66 »

Pattern-chaser wrote: February 27th, 2021, 8:34 am
Robert66 wrote: February 26th, 2021, 6:45 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote: February 23rd, 2021, 6:24 am
Robert66 wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 1:54 pm Where are the compelling right wing views to be found?
In these only-just-post-Trump days, I think the answer is "Everywhere!".
I see what you mean, Pattern-chaser. Some have been compelled to don horns and raid the Capitol even. Its just that I haven't been persuaded in the slightest by a right wing argument for ages.

Maybe persuasive would be a better word to use than compelling.
Oh. 😊 Yes. I see what you mean, now. 😊 Personally, I have never encountered a convincing or compelling right-wing argument. However you frame it, it seems to come out 'greed, greed, me, me, I-will-take-it-from-you-so-that-I-can-have-it'.


Robert66 wrote: February 26th, 2021, 6:50 pm 'It seems that Republicans don't know what they stand for any more - or at least they talk about it less'

That is what I'm talking about - some of them surely do know what they stand for. Let's hear from them. Come on - what would a great America actually be like, under a Republican government? Any takers?
A "great" America? Wow, you creative types are amazing, the things you can come up with! A great America. 🤔 Whoever woulda thoughta that? 🤔 Just wow.
The Republican side of politics used to argue for economic rationalism, and lowering taxes, and reducing the size of government, and abolishing "red tape" to allow business to flourish, whence the wealth would "trickle down" to all in society. Are all these politicians and their supporters now dead?

Sculptor1: 'The republicans are clueless since, Rupert Murdoch has forgotten to remind them recently what they are supposed to stand for.'

Really, is it that simple? Millions of voters, all clueless.

It seems to me a basic failure, in philosophy, to not at least think that others may believe in an argument, or cause, even though we don't.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Robert66 wrote: February 27th, 2021, 5:04 pm The Republican side of politics used to argue for economic rationalism, and lowering taxes, and reducing the size of government, and abolishing "red tape" to allow business to flourish, whence the wealth would "trickle down" to all in society. Are all these politicians and their supporters now dead?

But, but, but.... The wealth doesn't trickle down, it trickles up, from the poor up to the billionaires. Trickle-down economics is a very nasty lie.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Sy Borg wrote: February 27th, 2021, 4:53 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote: February 27th, 2021, 9:18 am
Sculptor1 wrote: February 27th, 2021, 9:12 am News Media owns the Australian government.
In fact as many of us in the UK know, that since Murcoch's News Group took over most of the papers in the UK, Murdoch has basically mandated each PM since the late 1970s.

Yes, this justifies my position, of total support for the national government involved. Unelected international business enterprises cannot be allowed to extend their dominance, and that can only be prevented by taking positive action now, while we still can. [Or am I too late with that sentiment? Is it already too late?] So, even if FB are right, and the Oz government wrong, I still support the latter, for reasons I consider to be over-riding.
You are far too late. Murdoch has controlled Australian politics since the 1970s and his grip has tightened decade by decade.

So your support for the "Australian government" here is simply a vote to strengthen Murdoch's control over Australia.

As mentioned earlier, we can see the results of his control over the US and the UK, having done more to damage those nations more than China, Russia or the Middle East combined.

Parasites are harder to see than overt predators, but they can harm and kill you just the same. In terms of threat to Australia, Murdoch very much dwarfs Zuckerberg. News Corp is the one with the monopoly.

Fair comments. And in the context you have described, my support remains with Oz, and against both Zuckerberg and Murdoch.
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BobS
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Re: Facebook versus the Australian Government - Who is Right?

Post by BobS »

Robert66 wrote: February 27th, 2021, 5:04 pm
The Republican side of politics used to argue for economic rationalism, and lowering taxes, and reducing the size of government, and abolishing "red tape" to allow business to flourish, whence the wealth would "trickle down" to all in society. Are all these politicians and their supporters now dead?
They're just a small minority, now in limbo.

For a list of some of the refugees from the party, see the Wikipedia article "List of Republicans who opposed the Donald Trump 2020 presidential campaign".

Although racism has a good deal to do with support for Trump, that's not all there is to it. (Although consider, Trump won the white vote by 57%, a figure that, if it had been the case across the board, would have been at the threshold of what's generally considered a "landslide" victory." A landslide for a blatant white supremacist.)

Just one example. A significant percentage (whatever that means; I've seen figures, but don't recall the specifics) of small business owners supported Trump. I know two people, not connected to each other, who own/manage rental property. One of them once told me that she wanted to replace all of the old door mats with new ones. It turned out that the applicable California state regulations ran to four pages. Four pages applicable to just a teeny, teeny aspect of her business. The second told me something similar about a different set of regs. In neither case was that person a Trump supporter, but both said that, given what they saw as the oppressive weight of government regulations, they could understand business owners rejecting the Democrats, even if it meant voting for the feral nitwit with whom we were burdened for the last four years.
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