...without incident.

Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7935
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

...without incident.

Post by LuckyR »

Yet again we have a rampaging shooter, this time at a supermarket. I'm not interested in discussing gun control, rather why police officers can confront:

1 an active shooter,
2 with an AR15 type weapon
3 who has killed ten people
4 including a police officer

can capture him, walk him into custody, yet somehow can't address an unarmed black man who passed a bogus $20 bill without killing him.

Similarly, white guy shoots eight in the Atlanta area... captured without incident.

What happened to: "I feared for my life".
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7092
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: ...without incident.

Post by Sculptor1 »

LuckyR wrote: March 26th, 2021, 2:57 am Yet again we have a rampaging shooter, this time at a supermarket. I'm not interested in discussing gun control, rather why police officers can confront:

1 an active shooter,
2 with an AR15 type weapon
3 who has killed ten people
4 including a police officer

can capture him, walk him into custody, yet somehow can't address an unarmed black man who passed a bogus $20 bill without killing him.

Similarly, white guy shoots eight in the Atlanta area... captured without incident.

What happened to: "I feared for my life".
No comment necessary..
I take it that the shooters were not black?
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7935
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: ...without incident.

Post by LuckyR »

Sculptor1 wrote: March 26th, 2021, 11:39 am
LuckyR wrote: March 26th, 2021, 2:57 am Yet again we have a rampaging shooter, this time at a supermarket. I'm not interested in discussing gun control, rather why police officers can confront:

1 an active shooter,
2 with an AR15 type weapon
3 who has killed ten people
4 including a police officer

can capture him, walk him into custody, yet somehow can't address an unarmed black man who passed a bogus $20 bill without killing him.

Similarly, white guy shoots eight in the Atlanta area... captured without incident.

What happened to: "I feared for my life".
No comment necessary..
I take it that the shooters were not black?
Correct, they didn't have what appears to be the most significant predictor for being killed by the police.
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: ...without incident.

Post by Pattern-chaser »

I can't see there's anything to disagree about in this. In the US, DWB - or merely existing while also possessing black skin - is a capital offence, executed (!) by any police officer - or concerned citizen? - who passes. "I feared for my life" is a defence akin to the 'gay panic' defence that was accepted, until recently, in Australia. According to the data, US cops simply hate black people so much they feel obliged to kill them whenever they can get away with it, and sometimes even when they can't. They will never be punished for it, after all.
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7092
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: ...without incident.

Post by Sculptor1 »

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 26th, 2021, 1:28 pm I can't see there's anything to disagree about in this. In the US, DWB - or merely existing while also possessing black skin - is a capital offence, executed (!) by any police officer - or concerned citizen? - who passes. "I feared for my life" is a defence akin to the 'gay panic' defence that was accepted, until recently, in Australia. According to the data, US cops simply hate black people so much they feel obliged to kill them whenever they can get away with it, and sometimes even when they can't. They will never be punished for it, after all.
Gays, witchs and foreigners too have all had to suffer from this othering.
Nick_A
Posts: 3364
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: ...without incident.

Post by Nick_A »

Killing is fashionable. Regardless if the killed are Jews, Armenians, Blacks as in the Darfur genocide or fetuses. It remains fashionable for one reason:
"When once a certain class of people has been placed by the temporal and spiritual authorities outside the ranks of those whose life has value, then nothing comes more naturally to men than murder." ~ Simone Weil
A dominant part of society at one time has declared the above mentioned lack value so are justifiably destroyed. Be on the safe side and make sure you are declared to have value.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
MAYA EL
Posts: 177
Joined: May 2nd, 2019, 11:17 pm

Re: ...without incident.

Post by MAYA EL »

And i thought that a philosophy forum would have people smart enough to not fall for propaganda. Guess i was wrong
Alias
Posts: 3119
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: ...without incident.

Post by Alias »

LuckyR wrote: March 26th, 2021, 2:57 am Yet again we have a rampaging shooter, this time at a supermarket. I'm not interested in discussing gun control, rather why police officers can confront:

1 an active shooter,
2 with an AR15 type weapon
3 who has killed ten people
4 including a police officer

can capture him, walk him into custody, yet somehow can't address an unarmed black man who passed a bogus $20 bill without killing him.

Similarly, white guy shoots eight in the Atlanta area... captured without incident.

What happened to: "I feared for my life".
I strongly suspect the different kinds of arrest were not carried out by the same team of police officers.
Statistically, yes, more crimes are committed by police against minorities than against the dominant population. But if you look at the records of individual officers, some have never mishandled, let alone abused, a suspect, while some others have a dozen complaints against again before they finally kill somebody.
Some police forces have an internal culture of discrimination against specific groups of citizens, or even a systemic hostile attitude toward the citizenry at large. Such police departments tend to discourage their members giving evidence one against another, cover up complaints from the public, close ranks against criticism and resist reform.
Whether a police force is run well or badly depends on the municipal administration, the makeup of which is determined by the voters. Whatever the prevailing attitude of the police, it reflects that of the most influential citizens first and majority of voters second - and of course, the style of policing, as well as as law-making and law-breaking invariably reflects the culture at large.
Fractured nations have broken judicial systems.
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 6105
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: ...without incident.

Post by Belindi »

Alias wrote: March 27th, 2021, 4:38 am
LuckyR wrote: March 26th, 2021, 2:57 am Yet again we have a rampaging shooter, this time at a supermarket. I'm not interested in discussing gun control, rather why police officers can confront:

1 an active shooter,
2 with an AR15 type weapon
3 who has killed ten people
4 including a police officer

can capture him, walk him into custody, yet somehow can't address an unarmed black man who passed a bogus $20 bill without killing him.

Similarly, white guy shoots eight in the Atlanta area... captured without incident.

What happened to: "I feared for my life".
I strongly suspect the different kinds of arrest were not carried out by the same team of police officers.
Statistically, yes, more crimes are committed by police against minorities than against the dominant population. But if you look at the records of individual officers, some have never mishandled, let alone abused, a suspect, while some others have a dozen complaints against again before they finally kill somebody.
Some police forces have an internal culture of discrimination against specific groups of citizens, or even a systemic hostile attitude toward the citizenry at large. Such police departments tend to discourage their members giving evidence one against another, cover up complaints from the public, close ranks against criticism and resist reform.
Whether a police force is run well or badly depends on the municipal administration, the makeup of which is determined by the voters. Whatever the prevailing attitude of the police, it reflects that of the most influential citizens first and majority of voters second - and of course, the style of policing, as well as as law-making and law-breaking invariably reflects the culture at large.
Fractured nations have broken judicial systems.
How might the balance of political power be redistributed so as to take cognisance of
"When once a certain class of people has been placed by the temporal and spiritual authorities outside the ranks of those whose life has value, then nothing comes more naturally to men than murder." ~ Simone Weil
(quoted by Nick-A)
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: ...without incident.

Post by Pattern-chaser »

MAYA EL wrote: March 27th, 2021, 12:12 am And i thought that a philosophy forum would have people smart enough to not fall for propaganda. Guess i was wrong
Then please enlighten us by clarifying what is propaganda and what is not?
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: ...without incident.

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Alias wrote: March 27th, 2021, 4:38 am Statistically, yes, more crimes are committed by police against minorities than against the dominant population. But if you look at the records of individual officers, some have never mishandled, let alone abused, a suspect, while some others have a dozen complaints against again before they finally kill somebody.
Yes, police officers are human, or Human-American as it is said over there. And many Human-Americans hate black people enough to kill them if given the opportunity. Some of the haters become police officers. Happily, some of the non-haters do too, but that doesn't take away from the basic problem. Hate-mongers in America are given civil authority and access to guns; bad move.
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
Alias
Posts: 3119
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: ...without incident.

Post by Alias »

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 27th, 2021, 9:52 am Yes, police officers are human, or Human-American as it is said over there. And many Human-Americans hate black people enough to kill them if given the opportunity. Some of the haters become police officers. Happily, some of the non-haters do too, but that doesn't take away from the basic problem. Hate-mongers in America are given civil authority and access to guns; bad move.
Oh yes, but there is quite a lot more to the situation. Where are the army and police recruited from? What is the command structure of these organizations? Who controls them, according to what principle and by what means?
There is the militarization of police - bad move, and on-going. The divide between the police and the people it's meant to serve and protect - bad move. The politicization of jurisprudence - very bad move. The confrontationalism and factional hostility of the entire culture - terrible move. The chasmic and deepening disparity of wealth and privilege, which is down to the monetization of everydamnthing - not so much a move as a state of the disunion. And the devil's bargain of the original federation, followed by the horrible move of enshrining the sequelae of that fatal flaw as the iconic event of the nation's history.
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: ...without incident.

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Alias wrote: March 27th, 2021, 10:28 am And the devil's bargain of the original federation, followed by the horrible move of enshrining the sequelae of that fatal flaw as the iconic event of the nation's history.
This Non-American has no idea of the events (?) you're talking about here. Please clarify? Thanks.
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
Alias
Posts: 3119
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: ...without incident.

Post by Alias »

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 27th, 2021, 10:38 am
Alias wrote: March 27th, 2021, 10:28 am And the devil's bargain of the original federation, followed by the horrible move of enshrining the sequelae of that fatal flaw as the iconic event of the nation's history.
This Non-American has no idea of the events (?) you're talking about here. Please clarify? Thanks.
US History: Leaving aside the devastation of environment in frontier-building (which itself forms the basis of American folklore), the mad, violent scramble for more territory (which ensured a perpetual tension with all Spanish-speaking colonies south of the US border) and the subjugation of Native populations (which featured in popular entertainment and child-play well into the 1960's), let's just go to the main events.
1. In order to form a more perfect --- well, really any union at all --- the founding fathers made that diabolical deal: slavery OK up to the Mason-Dixon line https://www.britannica.com/place/Mason-and-Dixon-Line hence the forever designation of "Dixieland" for those benighted regions; no slavery to the north of it.
2. The same political philosophers who embraced the equality of all men went on to write a constitution which denied the franchise to most men and all women.
2. Pushing westward, the contention of cheap labour, free labour, imported labour and captive labour continued, finally erupting in the Great and Glorious American Civil War - the single most celebrated debacle in their history.
3. The victorious North failed miserably in its reconstruction efforts, allowing opportunists from both north and south to batten on the 600,000+ dead soldiers, ruined farmers, and unemployed ex-slaves. The defeated South plunged into a bottomless state of denial and impotent defiance.
(The Civil War started in the War of Independence, much as WWII started in WWI.
It hasn't been resolved; they're still bleeding on it.)
Alias
Posts: 3119
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: ...without incident.

Post by Alias »

Belindi wrote: March 27th, 2021, 7:25 am
How might the balance of political power be redistributed so as to take cognisance of
"When once a certain class of people has been placed by the temporal and spiritual authorities outside the ranks of those whose life has value, then nothing comes more naturally to men than murder." ~ Simone Weil
(quoted by Nick-A)
I have answered this and somehow seem to have lost the answer.
More like Biden-Harris
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/26/us/p ... orgia.html
and more like the New Your Times than the Sinclair group
https://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums ... 5&p=380975
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Politics”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021