...without incident.

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LuckyR
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...without incident.

Post by LuckyR »

Yet again we have a rampaging shooter, this time at a supermarket. I'm not interested in discussing gun control, rather why police officers can confront:

1 an active shooter,
2 with an AR15 type weapon
3 who has killed ten people
4 including a police officer

can capture him, walk him into custody, yet somehow can't address an unarmed black man who passed a bogus $20 bill without killing him.

Similarly, white guy shoots eight in the Atlanta area... captured without incident.

What happened to: "I feared for my life".
"As usual... it depends."
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Sculptor1
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by Sculptor1 »

LuckyR wrote: March 26th, 2021, 2:57 am Yet again we have a rampaging shooter, this time at a supermarket. I'm not interested in discussing gun control, rather why police officers can confront:

1 an active shooter,
2 with an AR15 type weapon
3 who has killed ten people
4 including a police officer

can capture him, walk him into custody, yet somehow can't address an unarmed black man who passed a bogus $20 bill without killing him.

Similarly, white guy shoots eight in the Atlanta area... captured without incident.

What happened to: "I feared for my life".
No comment necessary..
I take it that the shooters were not black?
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LuckyR
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by LuckyR »

Sculptor1 wrote: March 26th, 2021, 11:39 am
LuckyR wrote: March 26th, 2021, 2:57 am Yet again we have a rampaging shooter, this time at a supermarket. I'm not interested in discussing gun control, rather why police officers can confront:

1 an active shooter,
2 with an AR15 type weapon
3 who has killed ten people
4 including a police officer

can capture him, walk him into custody, yet somehow can't address an unarmed black man who passed a bogus $20 bill without killing him.

Similarly, white guy shoots eight in the Atlanta area... captured without incident.

What happened to: "I feared for my life".
No comment necessary..
I take it that the shooters were not black?
Correct, they didn't have what appears to be the most significant predictor for being killed by the police.
"As usual... it depends."
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by Pattern-chaser »

I can't see there's anything to disagree about in this. In the US, DWB - or merely existing while also possessing black skin - is a capital offence, executed (!) by any police officer - or concerned citizen? - who passes. "I feared for my life" is a defence akin to the 'gay panic' defence that was accepted, until recently, in Australia. According to the data, US cops simply hate black people so much they feel obliged to kill them whenever they can get away with it, and sometimes even when they can't. They will never be punished for it, after all.
Pattern-chaser

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Sculptor1
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by Sculptor1 »

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 26th, 2021, 1:28 pm I can't see there's anything to disagree about in this. In the US, DWB - or merely existing while also possessing black skin - is a capital offence, executed (!) by any police officer - or concerned citizen? - who passes. "I feared for my life" is a defence akin to the 'gay panic' defence that was accepted, until recently, in Australia. According to the data, US cops simply hate black people so much they feel obliged to kill them whenever they can get away with it, and sometimes even when they can't. They will never be punished for it, after all.
Gays, witchs and foreigners too have all had to suffer from this othering.
Nick_A
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by Nick_A »

Killing is fashionable. Regardless if the killed are Jews, Armenians, Blacks as in the Darfur genocide or fetuses. It remains fashionable for one reason:
"When once a certain class of people has been placed by the temporal and spiritual authorities outside the ranks of those whose life has value, then nothing comes more naturally to men than murder." ~ Simone Weil
A dominant part of society at one time has declared the above mentioned lack value so are justifiably destroyed. Be on the safe side and make sure you are declared to have value.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
MAYA EL
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by MAYA EL »

And i thought that a philosophy forum would have people smart enough to not fall for propaganda. Guess i was wrong
Alias
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by Alias »

LuckyR wrote: March 26th, 2021, 2:57 am Yet again we have a rampaging shooter, this time at a supermarket. I'm not interested in discussing gun control, rather why police officers can confront:

1 an active shooter,
2 with an AR15 type weapon
3 who has killed ten people
4 including a police officer

can capture him, walk him into custody, yet somehow can't address an unarmed black man who passed a bogus $20 bill without killing him.

Similarly, white guy shoots eight in the Atlanta area... captured without incident.

What happened to: "I feared for my life".
I strongly suspect the different kinds of arrest were not carried out by the same team of police officers.
Statistically, yes, more crimes are committed by police against minorities than against the dominant population. But if you look at the records of individual officers, some have never mishandled, let alone abused, a suspect, while some others have a dozen complaints against again before they finally kill somebody.
Some police forces have an internal culture of discrimination against specific groups of citizens, or even a systemic hostile attitude toward the citizenry at large. Such police departments tend to discourage their members giving evidence one against another, cover up complaints from the public, close ranks against criticism and resist reform.
Whether a police force is run well or badly depends on the municipal administration, the makeup of which is determined by the voters. Whatever the prevailing attitude of the police, it reflects that of the most influential citizens first and majority of voters second - and of course, the style of policing, as well as as law-making and law-breaking invariably reflects the culture at large.
Fractured nations have broken judicial systems.
Belindi
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by Belindi »

Alias wrote: March 27th, 2021, 4:38 am
LuckyR wrote: March 26th, 2021, 2:57 am Yet again we have a rampaging shooter, this time at a supermarket. I'm not interested in discussing gun control, rather why police officers can confront:

1 an active shooter,
2 with an AR15 type weapon
3 who has killed ten people
4 including a police officer

can capture him, walk him into custody, yet somehow can't address an unarmed black man who passed a bogus $20 bill without killing him.

Similarly, white guy shoots eight in the Atlanta area... captured without incident.

What happened to: "I feared for my life".
I strongly suspect the different kinds of arrest were not carried out by the same team of police officers.
Statistically, yes, more crimes are committed by police against minorities than against the dominant population. But if you look at the records of individual officers, some have never mishandled, let alone abused, a suspect, while some others have a dozen complaints against again before they finally kill somebody.
Some police forces have an internal culture of discrimination against specific groups of citizens, or even a systemic hostile attitude toward the citizenry at large. Such police departments tend to discourage their members giving evidence one against another, cover up complaints from the public, close ranks against criticism and resist reform.
Whether a police force is run well or badly depends on the municipal administration, the makeup of which is determined by the voters. Whatever the prevailing attitude of the police, it reflects that of the most influential citizens first and majority of voters second - and of course, the style of policing, as well as as law-making and law-breaking invariably reflects the culture at large.
Fractured nations have broken judicial systems.
How might the balance of political power be redistributed so as to take cognisance of
"When once a certain class of people has been placed by the temporal and spiritual authorities outside the ranks of those whose life has value, then nothing comes more naturally to men than murder." ~ Simone Weil
(quoted by Nick-A)
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by Pattern-chaser »

MAYA EL wrote: March 27th, 2021, 12:12 am And i thought that a philosophy forum would have people smart enough to not fall for propaganda. Guess i was wrong
Then please enlighten us by clarifying what is propaganda and what is not?
Pattern-chaser

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Pattern-chaser
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Alias wrote: March 27th, 2021, 4:38 am Statistically, yes, more crimes are committed by police against minorities than against the dominant population. But if you look at the records of individual officers, some have never mishandled, let alone abused, a suspect, while some others have a dozen complaints against again before they finally kill somebody.
Yes, police officers are human, or Human-American as it is said over there. And many Human-Americans hate black people enough to kill them if given the opportunity. Some of the haters become police officers. Happily, some of the non-haters do too, but that doesn't take away from the basic problem. Hate-mongers in America are given civil authority and access to guns; bad move.
Pattern-chaser

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Alias
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by Alias »

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 27th, 2021, 9:52 am Yes, police officers are human, or Human-American as it is said over there. And many Human-Americans hate black people enough to kill them if given the opportunity. Some of the haters become police officers. Happily, some of the non-haters do too, but that doesn't take away from the basic problem. Hate-mongers in America are given civil authority and access to guns; bad move.
Oh yes, but there is quite a lot more to the situation. Where are the army and police recruited from? What is the command structure of these organizations? Who controls them, according to what principle and by what means?
There is the militarization of police - bad move, and on-going. The divide between the police and the people it's meant to serve and protect - bad move. The politicization of jurisprudence - very bad move. The confrontationalism and factional hostility of the entire culture - terrible move. The chasmic and deepening disparity of wealth and privilege, which is down to the monetization of everydamnthing - not so much a move as a state of the disunion. And the devil's bargain of the original federation, followed by the horrible move of enshrining the sequelae of that fatal flaw as the iconic event of the nation's history.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Alias wrote: March 27th, 2021, 10:28 am And the devil's bargain of the original federation, followed by the horrible move of enshrining the sequelae of that fatal flaw as the iconic event of the nation's history.
This Non-American has no idea of the events (?) you're talking about here. Please clarify? Thanks.
Pattern-chaser

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Alias
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by Alias »

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 27th, 2021, 10:38 am
Alias wrote: March 27th, 2021, 10:28 am And the devil's bargain of the original federation, followed by the horrible move of enshrining the sequelae of that fatal flaw as the iconic event of the nation's history.
This Non-American has no idea of the events (?) you're talking about here. Please clarify? Thanks.
US History: Leaving aside the devastation of environment in frontier-building (which itself forms the basis of American folklore), the mad, violent scramble for more territory (which ensured a perpetual tension with all Spanish-speaking colonies south of the US border) and the subjugation of Native populations (which featured in popular entertainment and child-play well into the 1960's), let's just go to the main events.
1. In order to form a more perfect --- well, really any union at all --- the founding fathers made that diabolical deal: slavery OK up to the Mason-Dixon line https://www.britannica.com/place/Mason-and-Dixon-Line hence the forever designation of "Dixieland" for those benighted regions; no slavery to the north of it.
2. The same political philosophers who embraced the equality of all men went on to write a constitution which denied the franchise to most men and all women.
2. Pushing westward, the contention of cheap labour, free labour, imported labour and captive labour continued, finally erupting in the Great and Glorious American Civil War - the single most celebrated debacle in their history.
3. The victorious North failed miserably in its reconstruction efforts, allowing opportunists from both north and south to batten on the 600,000+ dead soldiers, ruined farmers, and unemployed ex-slaves. The defeated South plunged into a bottomless state of denial and impotent defiance.
(The Civil War started in the War of Independence, much as WWII started in WWI.
It hasn't been resolved; they're still bleeding on it.)
Alias
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Re: ...without incident.

Post by Alias »

Belindi wrote: March 27th, 2021, 7:25 am
How might the balance of political power be redistributed so as to take cognisance of
"When once a certain class of people has been placed by the temporal and spiritual authorities outside the ranks of those whose life has value, then nothing comes more naturally to men than murder." ~ Simone Weil
(quoted by Nick-A)
I have answered this and somehow seem to have lost the answer.
More like Biden-Harris
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/26/us/p ... orgia.html
and more like the New Your Times than the Sinclair group
https://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums ... 5&p=380975
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
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