Taxation is violent robbery.

Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
Post Reply
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 4508
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Taxation is violent robbery.

Post by Sculptor1 »

If you don't like tax, then boo hoo.
Imagine a world in which roads and sidewalks were privatised.
Where each family had to pay directly for their children to go to school.
Where the armed forces were not paid by the government but had to gather their salaries by protection rackets, conquest and invasion.
Where there was no CDC, no free vaccinations programs.
User avatar
NickGaspar
Posts: 646
Joined: October 8th, 2019, 5:45 am
Favorite Philosopher: Many

Re: Taxation is violent robbery.

Post by NickGaspar »

Sculptor1 wrote: May 14th, 2021, 8:40 am

[/quote]
No I am not. I am describing money as it is; fiat.
Of course you are presenting an idealistic perspective. The fact is that all governments are in debt to private banks. Money in circulations are not the product of the surplus of a society but of its dept to them....yrw.
If you are naive enough to think that way, then stop taking their filthy money and break your chains - no one is stopping you.
-I thought you were a serious interlocutor...but obviously you are not. Here is where the "violence' is introduced by the state. We are social creatures and institutions take advantage of that biological "need". Also you will find useful to do a research and see historically how all the attempts to establish a different monetary medium within an established state went......

Heirarchies were built, protection was offered.
Things have moved on since then.
-Yes the key word is "protection"...like let's say, whores and their pimps...an other violent relationship. This is what Scott is implying I guess. Thanks for that word.

No, Taxation started thousands of years before ancient and archaic Greece.
Before him was the (w)anax. And taxation and the idea of the centralised redistributive economy started in the Levant millenia before Greece
lol...I never said when taxation started! I am only identifying the registered terms in western civilization and their origins. The next time you go to a museum and read about a "Basilica" you will know that the initial purpose of that design was to store the surplus grain of a society.

You have a very poor understanding of ancient history. And clearly you do not understand how that mght be relevant today.
Originally "tax" was in the form of food and goods, until transfered to little bits of precious metal. Copper rings, small ingots were more conveniet forms of exchange. By the time the Basileus was actually a king, and not more like a "big man" on the antroplogical scale what emerged from the first dark age was coin in silver.
The silver stater became pretty much ubiquious througout the Med, until Rome minted smaller denominations in bronze, and higher in gold.
Before Rome money was cashed out in actual intrinsice value of the metals. But as time went on, money gained a faith in which the value stopped relating to intrinsic value bu extrinsic values of the demonination. Black billion replaced silver, but these debased issued lost vlues outside the empire. From that time to about 120 years ago values of money were a mix of extrinsice and extrinsic, paper money was one example - promisary notes.
Eventually the silver and gold standards were completely abandoned, and money was purely notional.
But tax is a fact of life for ALL civilised societies.
The alternative is chaos.
[/quote]

- Again you are focusing on the ideal not the real and you are attacking a strawman. We are criticizing how taxation is implemented and your answer is a vague deepity (But tax is a fact of life for ALL civilised societies.The alternative is chaos.)

"Tax" is essential for a society but not in the way taxation is applied and not necessary in a monetary form.
They are many ways to contribute to a society and many ways to monitor the surplus and how it is distributed.
We have the technology to do it, but we still rely on pseudo philosophical ideologies (economics) to do it.
You need to take an academic course or two on Human behavior before attempting to sell an imaginary product.

take care...
User avatar
NickGaspar
Posts: 646
Joined: October 8th, 2019, 5:45 am
Favorite Philosopher: Many

Re: Taxation is violent robbery.

Post by NickGaspar »

Sculptor1 wrote: May 14th, 2021, 8:43 am If you don't like tax, then boo hoo.
Imagine a world in which roads and sidewalks were privatised.
Where each family had to pay directly for their children to go to school.
Where the armed forces were not paid by the government but had to gather their salaries by protection rackets, conquest and invasion.
Where there was no CDC, no free vaccinations programs.
I see you are unable to think clearly.
you are attacking your own strawmen....
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 4508
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Taxation is violent robbery.

Post by Sculptor1 »

NickGaspar wrote: May 14th, 2021, 9:09 am
Sculptor1 wrote: May 14th, 2021, 8:43 am If you don't like tax, then boo hoo.
Imagine a world in which roads and sidewalks were privatised.
Where each family had to pay directly for their children to go to school.
Where the armed forces were not paid by the government but had to gather their salaries by protection rackets, conquest and invasion.
Where there was no CDC, no free vaccinations programs.
I see you are unable to think clearly.
you are attacking your own strawmen....
Is this all you have to offer?
:lol:
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 4508
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Taxation is violent robbery.

Post by Sculptor1 »

NickGaspar wrote: May 14th, 2021, 9:06 am "Tax" is essential for a society but not in the way taxation is applied and not necessary in a monetary form.
They are many ways to contribute to a society and many ways to monitor the surplus and how it is distributed.
We have the technology to do it, but we still rely on pseudo philosophical ideologies (economics) to do it.
You need to take an academic course or two on Human behavior before attempting to sell an imaginary product.

take care...
Please marshal your thoughts and get back to me. But spare me the flim-flam about Basileis. I srudied Ancient History so am not going to be bamboozled by fancy words.
User avatar
NickGaspar
Posts: 646
Joined: October 8th, 2019, 5:45 am
Favorite Philosopher: Many

Re: Taxation is violent robbery.

Post by NickGaspar »

Scott wrote: May 5th, 2021, 5:16 pm To be clear, the topic is not "are taxes necessary". Also, the topic is not "do you support taxes".

It's possible for a person to simultaneously believe all three of the following:

1. Taxation is violent robbery.
2. Taxation is necessary.
3. Taxation is good and desirable.

This particular forum topic is about whether #1 is true. It is not about #2 or #3.

There are many other topics on the forums about utilitarian violence, or other reasons people have for engaging in or supporting the commission of non-defensive non-consensual violence. One such topic is the following:

Intentional non-defensive killing - Do you always oppose it?

And here is another topic that I just made now:

Would you murder an innocent child with your bare hands to cure cancer?

Of course, anyone is free to make a new topic about something else, such as whether taxation is necessary, or whether organized violent robbery is ever desirable.
Correct. We are evaluating the method of application and the produced outcome, not how necessary or desirable this concept is.
Some just can't distinguish those three aspects so they treat them as one monolithic position committing a strawman fallacy in the process.
Steve3007
Posts: 10351
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Taxation is violent robbery.

Post by Steve3007 »

Scott wrote:In the USA, you have to pay taxes on income to the federal government no matter what currency you earn it in. If you gamble at a casino with bitcoin, you would still be legally required to report your winnings and pay taxes them. This applies to all USA citizens even if they do not live in the USA and even those earning are earned outside the USA in a currency other than USD...
OK. In the UK we pay taxes on income and profits. If I own an asset, like bitcoin or shares, I only pay tax if/when I sell those assets and realize a profit. For example, I currently have a portfolio of shares/stocks that are currently showing a modest "paper profit". I only pay tax on that profit (if it exceeds the annual capital gains tax allowance) if/when I sell those stocks. Similarly for a friend of mine who has made quite a large profit buying bitcoin.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 11293
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Taxation is violent robbery.

Post by Sy Borg »

Steve3007 wrote: May 17th, 2021, 11:21 am
Scott wrote:In the USA, you have to pay taxes on income to the federal government no matter what currency you earn it in. If you gamble at a casino with bitcoin, you would still be legally required to report your winnings and pay taxes them. This applies to all USA citizens even if they do not live in the USA and even those earning are earned outside the USA in a currency other than USD...
OK. In the UK we pay taxes on income and profits. If I own an asset, like bitcoin or shares, I only pay tax if/when I sell those assets and realize a profit. For example, I currently have a portfolio of shares/stocks that are currently showing a modest "paper profit". I only pay tax on that profit (if it exceeds the annual capital gains tax allowance) if/when I sell those stocks. Similarly for a friend of mine who has made quite a large profit buying bitcoin.
Same here. Some protection from capital gains taxes can be achieved via superannuation, trusts and whatever financial tricks that billionaires' accountants use to keep their taxes lower than everyone elses.
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Politics”

Upcoming Philosphy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

Living in Color

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Previous Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021