what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

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popeye1945
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what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

Post by popeye1945 »

Psychopathys walk among us, prey upon us at their will, and most often we never recognize them for what they are. If empathy, compassion, love or just kindness, in general, were vital for the definition of what it is to be human, the psychopath would have to be considered something from another realm. This is Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde, not in the form of a split personality but two aspects of a citizenry, a predator prey relationship going on everyday. psychopaths are highly represented in the prison system and responsible for the greater part of violent crimes. They also are highly represented in business, industry, and politics and even invade the churches looking for easy prey. How could one ever expect to live in a harmonious world when psychopaths are so highly represented in the halls of power, our present condition of domestic and international chaos might be the answer.

So, what would it be like if suddenly a cure was found for this disorder, it might not be as straightforward as one might think? Apparently, they perform some quite necessary functions in society, ones a normal person might not be able to do as well as psychopathy. Think for a moment, you are going into the hospital for a life-saving operation, your surgeon is a psychopath. He is the best surgeon in his field, he works extremely well under stress, mainly because he doesn't really give a dam about you, but only his ratings as a surgeon. You could opt out for a normal surgeon, but probably he does work as well under stress, which one do you want working on you? There are many examples of this in various fields, where a normal person would be inflicted with intense emotions in the preformance of a given task, and so psychopathy is indeed chosen above a normal person, it would seem that we cannot do without them. Any thoughts on the matter out there, it is a preplexing problem, one that should stir the imagination somewhat.
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

Post by Atla »

popeye1945 wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 4:55 am Psychopathys walk among us, prey upon us at their will, and most often we never recognize them for what they are. If empathy, compassion, love or just kindness, in general, were vital for the definition of what it is to be human, the psychopath would have to be considered something from another realm. This is Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde, not in the form of a split personality but two aspects of a citizenry, a predator prey relationship going on everyday.
They appear to be somewhat blunt but quite normal, very attractive, charming, rather peaceful. They have no internal struggles, but may pretend to have them. I once new a female psychopath, and it was not what I would consider 'human'. It was way outside that. After things inevitably went to hell with it, due to strange circumstances, I got to probe its mind for a while, to see what it's like. It was pure, but innocent, evil. The evil didn't end, and it was the only thing that existed for it.

I tried to absorb its mind to somewhat experience what it's like to be psychopath, because that's what I always do with every personality type, even with sociopaths. But this time there was no mind. There was no person there. But there was something else. The only way I can describe it is like, there is this small, reptilian-like proto-mind of pure hunger, that's wielding an apparent 'human'. It's wielding the entire neocortex like masks, like tools, like outlets. It can turn on and off parts of the neocortex at will. It can switch between different outlet personalities at will. It's like all of this was controlled from the brainstem or the gut or both. It can even turn on empathy circuits at will, but it's of course a shallow residue, replica of real empathy, and then it gets switched off again. Newer studies seem to confirm my experience: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-23431793
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

Post by Pattern-chaser »

popeye1945 wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 4:55 am Psychopaths walk among us [...] what would it be like if suddenly a cure was found for this disorder?

I wonder if psychopathy is a condition that somehow confers some evolutionary advantage? Otherwise, why do we still have it? Conditions like autism do not appear advantageous, but when we look more closely, we see that perhaps, sometimes, they can be. Not that being autistic is in any way similar to being a psychopath! But some neurological differences do seem to have some advantages to offer, to the individual or to humanity as a whole. Einstein was probably autistic (some say Newton was too).

Psychopaths are just sociopaths who enjoy hurting others, something that sociopaths are indifferent to. Neither of them cares, though, and in this, they are the same. Perhaps their drive to achieve their own desires is what they bring to our species?

I do not suggest that this is a true and correct theory, I just offer it for consideration. If there is no advantage, to the individual or the species, then why do we have psychopaths in our number? Or is it just a failing of our species?
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popeye1945
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

Post by popeye1945 »

Atla,
Wow, you are the brave heart, they just creeped me out and frighten me because I know they are capable of harming anyone without the slightest remorse. A couple of times I've been in the company of psychopaths that had criminal intentions, when I would be with them I always felt like I was in a predator-prey situation and I was the mark. I don't believe it can be said that they suffer their condition, I think they are quite pleased with just the way they are. They always gather info in what you might consider casual encounters on you for use down the road. They are good at what they do, a person can be around them for a while without realizing something is a miss, bang, I am creeped out and just want to be elsewhere.
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

Post by popeye1945 »

Pattern Chaser,
I don't believe there is any doubt that the condition is advantageous, they tend to rise to the top in business and politics, in whatever field they decide to enter into. This is of course the high functioning psychopaths, the lower functioning I think just blunder along do their most damages in interpersonal relationships. Interesting what you said about Einstein I think he was rather a selfish bloke a terrible husband and father, but still a gift to the world. Sociopaths and psychopaths are terms often used interchangabley good to keep the difference in mind. It is still a question, is the psychopath something in the mix of humanity that is essential to its continued survival? Casting out such a demond feels like the right thing to do, but it might be wise to consider the consequences for society at large. It certainly would be a different world.
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

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popeye1945 wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 9:23 am Interesting what you said about Einstein I think he was rather a selfish bloke a terrible husband and father, but still a gift to the world.

If he was autistic, it is entirely possible that your impression - held by many, I think - is a neurotypical misunderstanding. The one thing that nearly all of us (autistics) share is difficulty (sometimes quite extreme) in social communication and interaction. If you asked me to rate myself as a father, I might well say "terrible", even though I always did my best... But never mind. This is an aside, and I don't want to derail this thread.
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Atla
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

Post by Atla »

popeye1945 wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 8:55 am Atla,
Wow, you are the brave heart, they just creeped me out and frighten me because I know they are capable of harming anyone without the slightest remorse. A couple of times I've been in the company of psychopaths that had criminal intentions, when I would be with them I always felt like I was in a predator-prey situation and I was the mark. I don't believe it can be said that they suffer their condition, I think they are quite pleased with just the way they are. They always gather info in what you might consider casual encounters on you for use down the road. They are good at what they do, a person can be around them for a while without realizing something is a miss, bang, I am creeped out and just want to be elsewhere.
They don't suffer, they have no 'soul' that could hurt. They can't imagine what it's like to have a soul and what it's like to hurt. They are empty and quite 'happy' as they are, making others suffer also makes them happy. I found that the only way to handle their superiority complex and predatoryness, is to avoid them when possible, and treat them as inferiors, less than human, there is just no middle way.

Even had another psychopath tell me once that he had no sense of self, he didn't really know what that is. Their being is mostly automatic. Some other psychopaths told me that they don't consider themselves human either.
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

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Atla wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 10:21 am Even had another psychopath tell me once that he had no sense of self, he didn't really know what that is. Their being is mostly automatic. Some other psychopaths told me that they don't consider themselves human either.
How have you met so many psychopaths? As far as I know, they're not that numerous.
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

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Pattern-chaser wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 12:24 pm
Atla wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 10:21 am Even had another psychopath tell me once that he had no sense of self, he didn't really know what that is. Their being is mostly automatic. Some other psychopaths told me that they don't consider themselves human either.
How have you met so many psychopaths? As far as I know, they're not that numerous.
I was sort of a like a magnet to them IRL, it's more like a fascination for them, not really about preying. Also some milder psychopathology in the family. Because of these I also had to do a lot of research on them online later. Now I'm much better at spotting them and just not getting involved with them.
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

Post by popeye1945 »

One has to be wary but there is no way that they can in fact be held responsible for being as they are. Just as the insane are not held responsible for their actions so the psychopath is not responsible for his. Interesting to hear some insights into how they view themselves. I suppose if you've never known anything else you would not have anything to compare it to, precisely the position of a normal person. The Luck of the draw, a malfunction, if it was a tumor causing the bad behavior one would naturally cut them some slack. Ah but for the shuffled deck go I. It is true of the few that I have known they do have that sense of superiority. With no moral restraints to inhabit them little wonder they have this sense of superiority. Absolute autonomy and morality it is said, are mutually exclusive, these chaps have absolute autonomy.
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

Post by Nick_A »

The Madman

You ask me how I became a madman. It happened thus: One day, long before many gods were born, I woke from a deep sleep and found all my masks were stolen -- the seven masks I have fashioned and worn in seven lives -- I ran maskless through the crowded streets shouting, "Thieves, thieves, the cursed thieves."
Men and women laughed at me and some ran to their houses in fear of me.
And when I reached the market place, a youth standing on a house-top cried, "He is a madman." I looked up to behold him; the sun kissed my own naked face for the first time. For the first time the sun kissed my own naked face and my soul was inflamed with love for the sun, and I wanted my masks no more. And as if in a trance I cried, "Blessed, blessed are the thieves who stole my masks."
Thus I became a madman.
And I have found both freedom and safety in my madness; the freedom of loneliness and the safety from being understood, for those who understand us enslave something in us.
But let me not be too proud of my safety. Even a Thief in a jail is safe from another thief.

- Gibran, The Madman - His Parables and Poems

We have to eliminate these psychopaths through education to preserve the peace.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

Post by Tegularius »

Hardly different from the one we have. The psychopath is only around 1% of the population. The real problem are all the stupids out there which comprise a very much higher percentage who so easily succumb or believe the manipulations of the psychopaths as one major component of their collective stupidity.

As such, the first question which comes to mind would be to what extent is society itself responsible for creating most of the psychopaths and sociopaths existing at any one time while admitting it can also manifest as a brain malfunction in more severe cases. Is society, due to its double standard, itself diseased enough to be a slow incubator of that which it collectively condemns because if that were true, society first and foremost would need to be inoculated against many of its more pernicious side effects. Also, psychopathology manifests itself best within a group where is behaviours are less diluted unless it's extreme to start with.
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

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popeye1945 wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 4:55 am Psychopathys walk among us, prey upon us at their will, and most often we never recognize them for what they are. If empathy, compassion, love or just kindness, in general, were vital for the definition of what it is to be human, the psychopath would have to be considered something from another realm. This is Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde, not in the form of a split personality but two aspects of a citizenry, a predator prey relationship going on everyday. psychopaths are highly represented in the prison system and responsible for the greater part of violent crimes. They also are highly represented in business, industry, and politics and even invade the churches looking for easy prey. How could one ever expect to live in a harmonious world when psychopaths are so highly represented in the halls of power, our present condition of domestic and international chaos might be the answer.

So, what would it be like if suddenly a cure was found for this disorder, it might not be as straightforward as one might think? Apparently, they perform some quite necessary functions in society, ones a normal person might not be able to do as well as psychopathy. Think for a moment, you are going into the hospital for a life-saving operation, your surgeon is a psychopath. He is the best surgeon in his field, he works extremely well under stress, mainly because he doesn't really give a dam about you, but only his ratings as a surgeon. You could opt out for a normal surgeon, but probably he does work as well under stress, which one do you want working on you? There are many examples of this in various fields, where a normal person would be inflicted with intense emotions in the preformance of a given task, and so psychopathy is indeed chosen above a normal person, it would seem that we cannot do without them. Any thoughts on the matter out there, it is a preplexing problem, one that should stir the imagination somewhat.
What would it be like? Like a bonobo encampment in contrast to chimpanzees.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

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Nick_A wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 1:57 pm We have to eliminate these psychopaths through education to preserve the peace.
Psychopaths can no more be eliminated by education than paedophiles can be 'cured'. It is misleading, and a little bit dangerous, to suggest so.
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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Tegularius wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 7:37 pm Hardly different from the one we have. The psychopath is only around 1% of the population. The real problem are all the stupids out there which comprise a very much higher percentage who so easily succumb or believe the manipulations of the psychopaths as one major component of their collective stupidity.
So it isn't the bullies who are responsible for their actions, it's the fault of their victims, for being vulnerable?

No, I don't think so.
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