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Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured
Posted: May 4th, 2021, 6:50 am
by Pattern-chaser
Tegularius wrote: ↑May 2nd, 2021, 7:37 pm
The real problem are all the stupids out there which comprise a very much higher percentage who so easily succumb or believe the manipulations of the psychopaths as one major component of their collective stupidity.
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2021, 8:24 am
So it isn't the bullies who are responsible for their actions, it's the fault of their victims, for being vulnerable?
Tegularius wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2021, 6:46 pm
No idea what you're talking about. The OP refers to psychopathology not bullies...two completely different subjects.
Really? OK, I was repeating an old argument, that also applies here.
You are saying that it's not the psychopaths that are the problem, it's the "stupids" who
allow themselves to be manipulated! By the same reasoning, I could shoot you dead, and say that it was your fault for being in front of my gun when I discharged it.
Your argument is called '
victim blaming'; it seeks to justify, support, and enable psychopaths. I don't believe that is a reasonable approach to this issue.
Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured
Posted: May 4th, 2021, 12:49 pm
by LuckyR
Sculptor1 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2021, 4:50 am
LuckyR wrote: ↑May 4th, 2021, 2:17 am
Sculptor1 wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2021, 1:53 pm
LuckyR wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2021, 1:32 pm
Unfortunately for the eugenics idea twin studies show that only about 50% of what we call sociopathy is of genetic origin.
That article is 11 years old, but the BBC prog I saw was far more recent, so I imagine more work has been done on this.
Not sure whether twin studies on "sociopathy" is relevant.
Psychopathy is fer more narrowly defined.
Twin studies (measuring the prevalence of traits in identical vs fraternal twins) allows one to calculate the portion of the trait which is genetic since identical twins share 100% and fraternal twins 50% of their genetic material, and grow up in identical environments.
I know what twin studies are.
Show me a psychopathic twin where their sibling does not share the traits!
Psychopathy is an innate disability, it cannot be learned, but it can be masked according to good upbringing.
That is how some psychopaths can be priests whilst others are crinimals. Psychopaths like Trump and Boris had privaleged backgrounds, had they been born working class they are likely to have been criminals. Some say they already are.
Well since sociopathy has an approximate 50% environmental source or cause according to professionals in the field I choose to not believe your stated opinion, though you are free, of course to promote it.
Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured
Posted: May 4th, 2021, 2:30 pm
by Sculptor1
LuckyR wrote: ↑May 4th, 2021, 12:49 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2021, 4:50 am
LuckyR wrote: ↑May 4th, 2021, 2:17 am
Sculptor1 wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2021, 1:53 pm
That article is 11 years old, but the BBC prog I saw was far more recent, so I imagine more work has been done on this.
Not sure whether twin studies on "sociopathy" is relevant.
Psychopathy is fer more narrowly defined.
Twin studies (measuring the prevalence of traits in identical vs fraternal twins) allows one to calculate the portion of the trait which is genetic since identical twins share 100% and fraternal twins 50% of their genetic material, and grow up in identical environments.
I know what twin studies are.
Show me a psychopathic twin where their sibling does not share the traits!
Psychopathy is an innate disability, it cannot be learned, but it can be masked according to good upbringing.
That is how some psychopaths can be priests whilst others are crinimals. Psychopaths like Trump and Boris had privaleged backgrounds, had they been born working class they are likely to have been criminals. Some say they already are.
Well since sociopathy has an approximate 50% environmental source or cause according to professionals in the field I choose to not believe your stated opinion, though you are free, of course to promote it.
What part of this thread is NOT about sociopathy do you not understand?. It's about psychopathy.
Sociopathy is, not surprisongly a sociologically defined phenomenon. But even if your uncited sources are claiming a statistic, it should make you pause in horror at such a fudged number as 50:50!! Most statistics are made up oj the spot and there is not doubt yours is too, wherever it might have come from.
Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured
Posted: May 5th, 2021, 2:48 am
by LuckyR
Sculptor1 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2021, 2:30 pm
LuckyR wrote: ↑May 4th, 2021, 12:49 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2021, 4:50 am
LuckyR wrote: ↑May 4th, 2021, 2:17 am
Twin studies (measuring the prevalence of traits in identical vs fraternal twins) allows one to calculate the portion of the trait which is genetic since identical twins share 100% and fraternal twins 50% of their genetic material, and grow up in identical environments.
I know what twin studies are.
Show me a psychopathic twin where their sibling does not share the traits!
Psychopathy is an innate disability, it cannot be learned, but it can be masked according to good upbringing.
That is how some psychopaths can be priests whilst others are crinimals. Psychopaths like Trump and Boris had privaleged backgrounds, had they been born working class they are likely to have been criminals. Some say they already are.
Well since sociopathy has an approximate 50% environmental source or cause according to professionals in the field I choose to not believe your stated opinion, though you are free, of course to promote it.
What part of this thread is NOT about sociopathy do you not understand?. It's about psychopathy.
Sociopathy is, not surprisongly a sociologically defined phenomenon. But even if your uncited sources are claiming a statistic, it should make you pause in horror at such a fudged number as 50:50!! Most statistics are made up oj the spot and there is not doubt yours is too, wherever it might have come from.
Dude, you're all over the place. I've had days like that too so I'll cut you a break.
First, many feel that psychopathy and sociopathy are either synonyms, subsets of one another or gradations of the same issue. Many therefore use the terms interchangeably. Obviously some don't and you appear to be one of them, which is fine, though it is an error to imply they are universally recognized as distinctly different.
As to your horrific reaction to the idea of only a 50% genetic cause of these issues, I am not here to editorialize, merely to share factoids in this case. As to these stats being "mine", I never stated that I performed the research myself.
My guess is you are completely comfortable with statistics that you agree with and that it is those that don't fit your worldview that mostly suffer from being fudged and made up on the spot.
Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured
Posted: May 5th, 2021, 4:17 am
by Tegularius
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 4th, 2021, 6:50 am
Tegularius wrote: ↑May 2nd, 2021, 7:37 pm
The real problem are all the stupids out there which comprise a very much higher percentage who so easily succumb or believe the manipulations of the psychopaths as one major component of their collective stupidity.
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2021, 8:24 am
Your argument is called 'victim blaming'; it seeks to justify, support, and enable psychopaths. I don't believe that is a reasonable approach to this issue.
I don't see how anything I wrote justifies that conclusion. There are those who are victims of their own stupidity as has always been the case and those who are victims of circumstance, that is, through no fault of their own. For example I don't have to listen to some lying psychopath who encourages others to storm the Capital building. It's not necessary to be that bloody stupid unless one actually is.
Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured
Posted: May 5th, 2021, 6:30 am
by Sculptor1
LuckyR wrote: ↑May 5th, 2021, 2:48 am
Dude, you're all over the place. I've had days like that too so I'll cut you a break.
I'm not a dude, girly.
First, many feel that psychopathy and sociopathy are either synonyms, subsets of one another or gradations of the same issue.
I'm not so much interested in how you feel about this.
I AM interested in the phenomenon of PSYCHOPATHY, which is one aspect of sociopathy. It is one aspect of sociopathy that is GENETIC. It is thought that 1% are born psychopaths. Some do not express as sociopathic, since they are often smart enough to disguise their psychopathy. We might point to Trump and Boris as fitting the frame.
Many therefore use the terms interchangeably.
Please cite!
Obviously some don't and you appear to be one of them, which is fine, though it is an error to imply they are universally recognized as distinctly different.
Tut tut. From your ignorance to ad hominem. Congratualtions!
As to your horrific reaction to the idea of only a 50% genetic cause of these issues, I am not here to editorialize, merely to share factoids in this case. As to these stats being "mine", I never stated that I performed the research myself.
Run along and educate yourself please.
My guess is you are completely comfortable with statistics that you agree with and that it is those that don't fit your worldview that mostly suffer from being fudged and made up on the spot.
Wring I tend to favour
environmental rather than genetic causes and solutions, since they are the area where we can act as a society to allieviate problems.
It's that you just do not know what psychopathy is.
Re: what kind of a world would we inherit if psychopathology were cured
Posted: May 5th, 2021, 6:31 am
by Sculptor1
Error above: for "Wring" read "Wrong"