Is taxation by big non-local governments violent robbery?

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Belindi
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Re: Is taxation by big non-local governments violent robbery?

Post by Belindi »

LuckyR wrote: November 24th, 2021, 2:46 am
Robert66 wrote: November 23rd, 2021, 5:03 pm
Belindi wrote: November 22nd, 2021, 7:08 am In a democratic country there is a welfare state such that the poorest man gets an education that frees him from ignorance, and health care and legal care that are free at point of use. There are also media free from political or commercial corruption. In a democratic country there is also the right to associate for peaceful political demonstrations.
Thanks for explaining democracy. I am however more interested in what you have left out of the picture. Reading your last few posts here is like being told all about the advantages of some advanced automobile - it has an automatic gearbox, cd player, etc - but not hearing that the car has been resting at the bottom of a lake since 1996.

Do you think some of your statements about democracy could be examined? How would they hold up under scrutiny?

Is the poorest man receiving an education that frees him from ignorance in India, or Indonesia, or the USA?

Is health care, free at the point of use, then financially crippling for the rest of the user's life, such a great idea?

How well cared for within the legal system are the majority of low-income earning and poor citizens of democracies?

'There are also media free from political or commercial corruption'? And the moon is really made of cheese.

And just to rewind a little: 'Ownership is conferred by power to retain and to attain and the freedom to select.' Do you think that statement might appear as a slap in the face to the dispossessed and colonised now residing in the glorious democratic new world?

I don't disagree that democracy is preferable in many ways, however trite statements such as 'Under democracy if the taxation system is too burdensome it can be changed' should be examined through the lens offered by reality.
Preferable to what?

"...democracy is the worst form of government except for all those other forms that have been tried..."
As Lucky quoted. Citizenship pertains to a nation not to the whole world.
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Robert66
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Re: Is taxation by big non-local governments violent robbery?

Post by Robert66 »

Belindi wrote: November 24th, 2021, 7:35 am
LuckyR wrote: November 24th, 2021, 2:46 am
Robert66 wrote: November 23rd, 2021, 5:03 pm
Belindi wrote: November 22nd, 2021, 7:08 am In a democratic country there is a welfare state such that the poorest man gets an education that frees him from ignorance, and health care and legal care that are free at point of use. There are also media free from political or commercial corruption. In a democratic country there is also the right to associate for peaceful political demonstrations.
Thanks for explaining democracy. I am however more interested in what you have left out of the picture. Reading your last few posts here is like being told all about the advantages of some advanced automobile - it has an automatic gearbox, cd player, etc - but not hearing that the car has been resting at the bottom of a lake since 1996.

Do you think some of your statements about democracy could be examined? How would they hold up under scrutiny?

Is the poorest man receiving an education that frees him from ignorance in India, or Indonesia, or the USA?

Is health care, free at the point of use, then financially crippling for the rest of the user's life, such a great idea?

How well cared for within the legal system are the majority of low-income earning and poor citizens of democracies?

'There are also media free from political or commercial corruption'? And the moon is really made of cheese.

And just to rewind a little: 'Ownership is conferred by power to retain and to attain and the freedom to select.' Do you think that statement might appear as a slap in the face to the dispossessed and colonised now residing in the glorious democratic new world?

I don't disagree that democracy is preferable in many ways, however trite statements such as 'Under democracy if the taxation system is too burdensome it can be changed' should be examined through the lens offered by reality.
Preferable to what?

"...democracy is the worst form of government except for all those other forms that have been tried..."
As Lucky quoted. Citizenship pertains to a nation not to the whole world.
A Churchill quote and a little more 'splaining, this time about citizenship. Is that all? FFFFFFFS!!!
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LuckyR
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Re: Is taxation by big non-local governments violent robbery?

Post by LuckyR »

Robert66 wrote: November 24th, 2021, 4:21 pm
Belindi wrote: November 24th, 2021, 7:35 am
LuckyR wrote: November 24th, 2021, 2:46 am
Robert66 wrote: November 23rd, 2021, 5:03 pm

Thanks for explaining democracy. I am however more interested in what you have left out of the picture. Reading your last few posts here is like being told all about the advantages of some advanced automobile - it has an automatic gearbox, cd player, etc - but not hearing that the car has been resting at the bottom of a lake since 1996.

Do you think some of your statements about democracy could be examined? How would they hold up under scrutiny?

Is the poorest man receiving an education that frees him from ignorance in India, or Indonesia, or the USA?

Is health care, free at the point of use, then financially crippling for the rest of the user's life, such a great idea?

How well cared for within the legal system are the majority of low-income earning and poor citizens of democracies?

'There are also media free from political or commercial corruption'? And the moon is really made of cheese.

And just to rewind a little: 'Ownership is conferred by power to retain and to attain and the freedom to select.' Do you think that statement might appear as a slap in the face to the dispossessed and colonised now residing in the glorious democratic new world?

I don't disagree that democracy is preferable in many ways, however trite statements such as 'Under democracy if the taxation system is too burdensome it can be changed' should be examined through the lens offered by reality.
Preferable to what?

"...democracy is the worst form of government except for all those other forms that have been tried..."
As Lucky quoted. Citizenship pertains to a nation not to the whole world.
A Churchill quote and a little more 'splaining, this time about citizenship. Is that all? FFFFFFFS!!!
Still waiting for the alternative...
"As usual... it depends."
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Robert66
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Re: Is taxation by big non-local governments violent robbery?

Post by Robert66 »

This from www.Churchill.org:

'Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

Churchill answers Lucky R's question for me. I say again democracy is preferable in many ways, but note I do not say democracy is preferable in every way, nor is it necessarily preferable to other forms of government. With the right person wearing the crown or controlling the military, an absolute monarchy or green dictatorship could be way better then corrupted democracy. Ditto socialism even communism minus greedy hogs in the Kremlin.

As far as getting needed stuff done, democracy could be the worst form of government. When Xi Jinping orders coal-fired power stations to be closed they are gone by the end of the week. When the world cries out for an end to coal, some democracies especially Australia choose instead to shove a massive, ridiculous "spanner in the works" for decades - decades which really cannot be wasted. But the many voices in a democracy must be heard, even or especially those of expatriate media moguls.
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LuckyR
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Re: Is taxation by big non-local governments violent robbery?

Post by LuckyR »

Robert66 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 6:16 pm This from www.Churchill.org:

'Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

Churchill answers Lucky R's question for me. I say again democracy is preferable in many ways, but note I do not say democracy is preferable in every way, nor is it necessarily preferable to other forms of government. With the right person wearing the crown or controlling the military, an absolute monarchy or green dictatorship could be way better then corrupted democracy. Ditto socialism even communism minus greedy hogs in the Kremlin.

As far as getting needed stuff done, democracy could be the worst form of government. When Xi Jinping orders coal-fired power stations to be closed they are gone by the end of the week. When the world cries out for an end to coal, some democracies especially Australia choose instead to shove a massive, ridiculous "spanner in the works" for decades - decades which really cannot be wasted. But the many voices in a democracy must be heard, even or especially those of expatriate media moguls.
Everyone agrees dictatorships and monarchies are much more efficient than democracies. If Xi's government is preferable to you, I have to respect that, though I prefer to live in the West. To each their own.
"As usual... it depends."
Belindi
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Re: Is taxation by big non-local governments violent robbery?

Post by Belindi »

Robert66 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 6:16 pm This from www.Churchill.org:

'Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

Churchill answers Lucky R's question for me. I say again democracy is preferable in many ways, but note I do not say democracy is preferable in every way, nor is it necessarily preferable to other forms of government. With the right person wearing the crown or controlling the military, an absolute monarchy or green dictatorship could be way better then corrupted democracy. Ditto socialism even communism minus greedy hogs in the Kremlin.

As far as getting needed stuff done, democracy could be the worst form of government. When Xi Jinping orders coal-fired power stations to be closed they are gone by the end of the week. When the world cries out for an end to coal, some democracies especially Australia choose instead to shove a massive, ridiculous "spanner in the works" for decades - decades which really cannot be wasted. But the many voices in a democracy must be heard, even or especially those of expatriate media moguls.

If human nature was such that the ruling elite was always altruistic then democracy would be less efficient. Not to prefer democracy is to risk all on an absurdly optimistic view of human nature.
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Robert66
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Re: Is taxation by big non-local governments violent robbery?

Post by Robert66 »

To repeat myself - democracy is preferable in many ways, but note I do not say democracy is preferable in every way, nor is it necessarily preferable to other forms of government. Just how such words translates into me being absurdly optimistic by not preferring democracy escapes me. Do we now live in a world where all nuance is discarded, and where it is impossible to even discuss (on a philosophy forum even) the ways in which democracy has been bent out of shape.

Nowhere have I said that I prefer Xi's government.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Is taxation by big non-local governments violent robbery?

Post by Sculptor1 »

An example of a tax free economy..

Please go to Youtube
and type "Why Isn't Congo as Rich as Saudi Arabia? Massive Tax Evasion"
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Sculptor1
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Re: Is taxation by big non-local governments violent robbery?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Meanwhile Jeff bezos is making $400 million per second.
And not paying his fair share.
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