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The first world war was perhaps even more meaningful than the second world war. The first world war proved that Britain could not get its own way globally anymore, and needed the backing of the United States. Many empires fell as a result of the first world war and a re-division of colonies was in order for the victors to divide among themselves. America was to basically take over British colonies but would run them differently, instead of moving right in a taking over like the British, American would use puppet governments and its corporations to govern those the fall under the N-word, their subjects.

Russia withdrew from the war, it had a revolution to deal with at home, she also made it clear she was not interested in colonization. After the war was won, Europe and American sent many armies to Russia to fight against their revolution. Russia made itself even less popular in providing aid to freedom fighter in the colonies. So it is my premise that this is how one in those dark times becomes the evil empire, colonization had been the source of wars even before the British empire, it was the fashion of the times, a different form of slavery but even more profitable. There are many bad things about Russia most revolving around Stalin, but I believe the original labeling of Russian which still hangs in there in the minds of much of the west, is due to its anti-colonial stance. China does seem particularly interested in colonial expansion, yet the Americans have her surrounded with military bases and nucular weapons, she soon if not already will the new enemy the new evil empire.

In the 'West' at least, Russia is not an imperial power, and I don't think they ever were. The British Empire (although fading by then) survived WW1, and even WW2, although it foundered soon afterwards. It was followed by the American Empire, which lasted until current times, although it is fading now. The Chinese will surely be the next imperial power.

Is it part of the thesis of this topic that the Soviet Union was not an empire? Events like, for example, the 1956 invasion of Hungary certainly look like the actions of an imperial power. Were they not?

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 10th, 2021, 7:03 am In the 'West' at least, Russia is not an imperial power, and I don't think they ever were. The British Empire (although fading by then) survived WW1, and even WW2, although it foundered soon afterwards. It was followed by the American Empire, which lasted until current times, although it is fading now. The Chinese will surely be the next imperial power.

Pattern chaser,
As my post stated it became obvious to Briton that she could no longer get her own way globally anymore, the Yanks entering into the fray to save their butts the turning point of world war one. The fact the Russia was not an Imperial power means it was not colonizing third world countries. They were however a superpower until relatively recently. After world war one, British colonies were slowly changing hands, unlike to British however who just went into these colonies and took over completely, Americans were a little more subtle, governing through puppet governments and corporations to share power. Presently the America empire is at fully strength, with a full time war economy and the most power monster war machine ever known on the earth. China is presently being targeted as the next evil empire, the states have her surrounded with military bases and nuclear weapons. Imperial comes from the colonial times, China does not have as far as I know any colonies, America cannot say the same.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2021, 2:22 pm The first world war was perhaps even more meaningful than the second world war.

It was a tragic game of dominoes! With an unconscionable number of patriotic youths sacrificed at the hands of hidebound and purblind war-lords; sacrificed to the egoes and ambitions of a dying world order. It proved that monarchy was no longer a viable form of government and 19th century divisions of global power would no longer hold.

Many empires fell as a result of the first world war and a re-division of colonies was in order for the victors to divide among themselves.

Please detail.

America was to basically take over British colonies

Britain's colonies gained independence, individually, between 1783 (American revolution, then a big gap) 1867 (Canada) and 1984 (Brunei) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ed_Kingdom with the bulk of them after WWII. However, afaik, only one colony, Hong Kong, was transferred to the auspices of another world power - China. The USA's foreign entanglements, wars and subject nations had little or nothing to do with British colonial rule.

Russia withdrew from the war, it had a revolution to deal with at home, she also made it clear she was not interested in colonization.

What do you think USSR stands for? The military occupation of eastern Europe, Afghanistan and some of Asia took place after WWII, but Tzarist Russia already had an empire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire
I suppose you could say that revolutionary Russia had no imperial ambition, but that only lasted some 20 years.

So it is my premise that this is how one in those dark times becomes the evil empire,

It becomes known as the evil empire for two reasons:
Its professed ideology is contrary and inimical to that of the western powers - capitalism, and its methods of dealing with opposition are harsh, ruthless and merciless.

China does seem particularly interested in colonial expansion, yet the Americans have her surrounded with military bases and nucular weapons, she soon if not already will the new enemy the new evil empire.

Same reasons.

Hi Steve,
Is it part of the thesis of this topic that the Soviet Union was not an empire? Events like, for example, the 1956 invasion of Hungary certainly look like the actions of an imperial power. Were they not?
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Yes, history is rather dirty, especial when one talks about Stalin. I am not sure of the details but I know after the war there was a lot of tit for tat going on, so it might have been a reaction to an aggressive step the States had taken. I am sure you realize governments lie to us. One must be wary of what one is told, propoganda is fully active even in peacetime. An example, I believed it was the states the ultimately won the war, with help from its alies. It wasn't until fairly recently I realized along with any reputable historian that the Russian defeated the Nazi monster war machine. Certainly, however, they lie to their citizens as well.

popeye1945 wrote:

Steve3007 wrote:Is it part of the thesis of this topic that the Soviet Union was not an empire? Events like, for example, the 1956 invasion of Hungary certainly look like the actions of an imperial power. Were they not?

Yes, history is rather dirty, especial when one talks about Stalin. I am not sure of the details but I know after the war there was a lot of tit for tat going on, so it might have been a reaction to an aggressive step the States had taken. I am sure you realize governments lie to us. One must be wary of what one is told, propoganda is fully active even in peacetime. An example, I believed it was the states the ultimately won the war, with help from its alies. It wasn't until fairly recently I realized along with any reputable historian that the Russian defeated the Nazi monster war machine. Certainly, however, they lie to their citizens as well.

I didn't ask if history is rather dirty. I asked if part of the thesis of the topic is that the Soviet Union wasn't an empire. Is that what the "yes" was answering?

I suppose it is but nobody owns up to it today not even the Yanks. Come to think of it the latest agression I can think of is their trying to usurp Ukraine. I believe the Ukraine use to be part of Russia, that might still be going on.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑May 10th, 2021, 3:55 pm I suppose it is but nobody owns up to it today not even the Yanks. Come to think of it the latest agression I can think of is their trying to usurp Ukraine. I believe the Ukraine use to be part of Russia, that might still be going on.

Before WWI, Ukraine used to be part of the Russian Empire, as were Belarus, Moldova, Finland, the Caucasus (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia), Central Asia (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan), the Baltic Republics (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia), and significant parts of Poland and Turkey. https://voegelinview.com/russian-empire-1721-1917/
After WWII, Russia gave up no part of the pre-soviet empire, but added more pieces of the ex-Ottoman empire to its territory, occupied Eastern Europe, exerted political and/or economic and/or military influence in most of Asia, including China, parts of Africa and South and Central America. https://www.britannica.com/place/Soviet-Union
That's a very, very big empire.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2021, 2:22 pm The first world war was perhaps even more meaningful than the second world war. The first world war proved that Britain could not get its own way globally anymore, and needed the backing of the United States. Many empires fell as a result of the first world war and a re-division of colonies was in order for the victors to divide among themselves. America was to basically take over British colonies but would run them differently, instead of moving right in a taking over like the British, American would use puppet governments and its corporations to govern those the fall under the N-word, their subjects.

Actually WWI was a massive boost to the British Empire as it shared the spoils of the fall of Ottoman with France, acquiring the Middle East - places such as Palestine, Iraq and Jordan. All through that war it never lost global control. When the Russian Revolution happened Germany was able to redirect its forces from the Eastern front to France.
The USs entry may well have shortened the war which was at deadlock, but it was likely that had it not joined the newly invented tanks may well have broken the deadlock in any event.
America's numbers only represented about 15% of the total mobilisation.
America has never taken over British colonies, not sure what you are on about here.

Steve3007 wrote: ↑May 10th, 2021, 7:12 am Is it part of the thesis of this topic that the Soviet Union was not an empire? Events like, for example, the 1956 invasion of Hungary certainly look like the actions of an imperial power. Were they not?

Russia was imperial in all but name.
From earliest times white people from Novgorod and Moscow slided its way east till it got to the Bering Straight, then started on Alaska, which they eventually sold to the US.
This feels like an empire to me.
After WW2 it somehow forgot to go home and stayed in Poland, East Germany, Czecheslovakia, Hungary. Balkans, Ukraine etc.

You've convinced me, but out of all the empires exercising these colonial tendencies how did it become the evil empire, and is China the next evil empire. I am obviously over my head here, so perhaps I'll just hang in there and do the best I can and let the more knowledgable lead the way here.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑May 10th, 2021, 5:56 pm You've convinced me, but out of all the empires exercising these colonial tendencies how did it become the evil empire, and is China the next evil empire. I am obviously over my head here, so perhaps I'll just hang in there and do the best I can and let the more knowledgable lead the way here.

It wasn't all that benign to begin with, but once Stalin came to power, his regime was very evil, indeed! The Americans didn't make that up: he really did starve and shoot and imprison millions of people under his rule, as well as oppressing and looting other countries. China became an evil empire when it was taken over by the Communist Party under Mao Zedong, with aid and advice from Stalin's Russian regime. The Chinese franchise did - and is still doing - its share of purges and repressions and persecution of minorities, in spite of having broken away.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... de=ytcr20&

Just read any of these sites https://www.commonsense.org/education/t ... r-students

Sorry, that was a list for American history sources.
For world history, try Encyclopedia Britannica, or you could do worse that the history channel for brief answers.
https://www.history.com/topics/british- ... rimean-war
There's a ton of sources, including very good ones. Not that hard to get some some overview of the facts before forming categorical opinions.

popeye1945 wrote:I suppose it is but nobody owns up to it today not even the Yanks. Come to think of it the latest agression I can think of is their trying to usurp Ukraine. I believe the Ukraine use to be part of Russia, that might still be going on.

You seem to conflate Russia with the Soviet Union/USSR. I recommend listening to the Beatles song "Back in the USSR" for a reminder of some of the countries that were in the USSR.

The Beatles wrote:The Ukraine girls really knock me out. They leave the West behind.