How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

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popeye1945
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by popeye1945 »

I am sold! Quoting the old Bush, "The world is just going to have to get use to it, what we say goes." The United States surely lost its humanity in Vietnam.
Alias
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Alias »

popeye1945 wrote: May 12th, 2021, 9:50 am I am sold! Quoting the old Bush, "The world is just going to have to get use to it, what we say goes." The United States surely lost its humanity in Vietnam.
Which humanity? The one that "relocated" the surviving Native Americans, the one that burned witches or the one that imported Africans kidnap victims and starving Irish children to do all its work?
popeye1945
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by popeye1945 »

Humanity as to what defines it, an utter lack of compassion is not part of the definition. Oh, maybe I've got you wrong here, are you saying America never had any humanity? Yes, its got a bloody history to those who weren't white.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Alias »

And also those who were.
All nations have bloody histories, and for all the same reason: they were populated by humans.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
popeye1945
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by popeye1945 »

Hi Alias,

"History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awaken." James Joyce What has made history such a blood bath is largely the white man's sense of superiority and his belief in his righteous colonialism. To him the world was full of ****** to oppress and/or save generally simultaneously, something that tragically cannot be undone.
Alias
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Alias »

popeye1945 wrote: May 19th, 2021, 4:56 pm Hi Alias,

"History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awaken." James Joyce What has made history such a blood bath is largely the white man's sense of superiority and his belief in his righteous colonialism. To him the world was full of ****** to oppress and/or save generally simultaneously, something that tragically cannot be undone.
Nah! Hominids of every conceivable shade and hue have been killing one another, raiding one another's settlements, stealing one another's crops, goods, livestock and daughters, occupying one another's land and attempting to dominate one another since long before they were even human. We can negate nature when it's in our interest to do so - as in inventing vaccines and synthesizing food - but invoke nature when that serves our interest - as in justifying carnivorous diets and excusing aggression. We're far too clever, selfish, duplicitous and self-deluding for our own welfare - very possibly for our own long-term survival.
popeye1945
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by popeye1945 »

Hi Alias,
Yes your right of course, there has always been bloodshed for the baser aspects of our natures. I guess all that can be said is that nineteenth and twentieth-century colonialism has been the vehicle upon which a monstrous amount of bloodshed and oppression has self-righteously been enacted upon the weaker. A form of slavery really, much more profitable than kidnapping and forced labour in ones own country.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Alias »

More people, more aggression, bigger empires, bigger wars.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Pattern-chaser »

popeye1945 wrote: May 12th, 2021, 11:17 am Humanity as to what defines it, an utter lack of compassion is not part of the definition.
I think it would be very easy to make the argument that "an utter lack of compassion" is central to the definition of humanity.
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Alias
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Alias »

We're quite good at compassion, pity, empathy, caring, generosity and altruism individually. We're equipped with mirror-neurons that allow each of us - well, most of us - to identify with the plight of another consciousness like our own, whether of another tribe, or even of different species.
What happens in large groups [mobs, rallies, platoons] is that all the mirror neurons fire off at the sight our next-of-kin, comerade, compatriot, shop steward, captain, party leader, king or whatever, and we reflect one another's anger, fear and hate. That overwhelming emotion shuts out every other impulse... until it's passed off and we see the damage.
Then we may be remorseful, guilty and ashamed, which feels very bad. In order to suppress that very bad feeling, we rationalize as how the damage we did was the victim's fault. Thus, we can never forgive those we have wronged.
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Sculptor1
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Sculptor1 »

Alias wrote: May 19th, 2021, 10:26 pm More people, more aggression, bigger empires, bigger wars.
Such empty phrases never submit to scrutiny.
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Sculptor1
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Sculptor1 »

Alias wrote: May 19th, 2021, 8:29 pm
popeye1945 wrote: May 19th, 2021, 4:56 pm Hi Alias,

"History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awaken." James Joyce What has made history such a blood bath is largely the white man's sense of superiority and his belief in his righteous colonialism. To him the world was full of ****** to oppress and/or save generally simultaneously, something that tragically cannot be undone.
Nah! Hominids of every conceivable shade and hue have been killing one another, raiding one another's settlements, stealing one another's crops, goods, livestock and daughters, occupying one another's land and attempting to dominate one another since long before they were even human. We can negate nature when it's in our interest to do so - as in inventing vaccines and synthesizing food - but invoke nature when that serves our interest - as in justifying carnivorous diets and excusing aggression. We're far too clever, selfish, duplicitous and self-deluding for our own welfare - very possibly for our own long-term survival.
If conflict is natural to humans, then so too is compassion and cooperation, since we have been copoerating and showing compassion since before we were humans too.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Alias wrote: May 20th, 2021, 10:54 am We're quite good at compassion, pity, empathy, caring, generosity and altruism individually.
We are? Empirical and historical observation seems to suggest that the opposite is also true.
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Alias »

Pattern-chaser wrote: May 20th, 2021, 11:23 am
Alias wrote: May 20th, 2021, 10:54 am We're quite good at compassion, pity, empathy, caring, generosity and altruism individually.
We are? Empirical and historical observation seems to suggest that the opposite is also true.
Didn't I say the also part? Sorry!
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Re: How Did Russia Become The Evil Empire And Is China next

Post by Alias »

Sculptor1 wrote: May 20th, 2021, 11:16 am
Alias wrote: May 19th, 2021, 10:26 pm More people, more aggression, bigger empires, bigger wars.
Such empty phrases never submit to scrutiny.
Scrutinize at leisure, then let me know which parts are factually incorrect, and how it's an inappropriate response to Popeye's preceding statement:
I guess all that can be said is that nineteenth and twentieth-century colonialism has been the vehicle upon which a monstrous amount of bloodshed and oppression has self-righteously been enacted upon the weaker.
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