Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

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UniversalAlien
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Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by UniversalAlien »

No I am not advocating war - Just accepting the truth - Man is a war like species that ALWAYS finds a reason for war.

Let's go back five, six thousand years and cover history since biblical times. War, war, and more war - Supposedly in the name of God.

I will not blame it all on religion, that is only one reason - Point is there is always a reason - Man reasons for and contrives reasons for war.

Many wars, including current wars, are held in the Middle East in the name of God - But then you have other wars, WWI, WWII, the Korean War, Vietnam War, etc. not held in the Middle East and not having anything to do with religion or God.

Apparently war pays more than it costs - Why we have a huge for profit arms and war industry.

So let's be honest and face the truth and decide ahead of time where they should stage the next war.

Any suggestions :?: Can you think of a new place to stage a war :?: We are probably not ready to have a space war, so pick some region of the planet where war can be most beneficial - political causes have become redundant and stupid - Let's make war pay :!:

How about, let's say a war between India and China to reduce World population :?: We can call it the Indo-Chinese War of 2021,

take bets on the outcome and set it up as 'pay per view' for close up camera work of the bloodiest battles and scenes.

Better still since we are supposedly a civilized species, why pick on any group of peoples or any particular nations.

- Why not have a lottery, which you can also bet on, and the nations that win can immediately start a war with each other ?

So are we ready people, ready to show any alien species that may be watching us, that Man is indeed a civilized species and is quite democratic in choosing its peoples and zones for war :?:
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by Sy Borg »

Wherever it is held, we can expect most deaths to be amongst the poor, animals and plants.

And, nowadays, we can also expect stolen, wiped and corrupted data and interrupted internet and electricity services.
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by LuckyR »

If we could view other countries as customers instead of rivals, we could eliminate shooting wars in favor of business conflicts.
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by UniversalAlien »

LuckyR wrote: July 1st, 2021, 1:59 am If we could view other countries as customers instead of rivals, we could eliminate shooting wars in favor of business conflicts.
Sure, but even way back in ancient times there was always business and business conflicts, may have even started some wars - But they want blood, and the gambling crowd wants the stakes to be high so that life and death are involved.

Why be hypocrites and pretend there is a political reason to stop diplomacy and wage war?- Man has always waged war for the sake of war, and all the excuses and superficial political reasons are lame excuses to excuse Man's desire to kill.

So let's stop pretending Humans are civilized when they are merely more sophisticated barbarians than they used to be :!:
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by psyreporter »

I do not agree with the argument that by looking at history, that one can conclude that humans are somehow destined to barbarism or war. Many profound philosophers have held such a view but I believe that that view is wrong.

The most basic disposition of life is 'lack of reason'. The origin of that 'issue' lays in the fundamental nature of the origin of life. By logic, life cannot find its origin on the level of an individual which means that it derives its 'actuality' (i.e. the root of conscious experience) from an external factor that is independent of empirical reality, which implies a disposition of 'lack of reason' (to be).

Reason enables to overcome that disposition, and thus for example to overcome a choice for war or barbarism.

Reason enables humans to live in the wild with Grizzly bears (Living with wild Grizzlies). The bears surly see humans as food but a friendship with the wild animal is evidently also possible.

Basic reasoning would enable to demand humans to 'choose' wisely and so to prevent war, rendering the argument by philosophers such as William James (founder of pacifism), that humans are naturally inclined to war, invalid, because of his attempt to prevent war with 'reason', of which it can be said that it ought to be the natural choice in the face of what reason, and its correlated 'human dignity' or its simple interest for long term prosperity, demands.

In short: in my opinion war is for 'dumb' people with no purpose in life. Ego and emotions appear to serve as a catalyst for progress and while it may be argued that 'it works', it may also be possible to argue that when that specific purpose would be taken over by reason and intelligence that it could enhance human progress to a much higher level.

Modern man may be expected to evolve beyond barbarism if it intends to secure longer term prosperity. Intelligence before practice means overcoming darkness before it was ever present, and thus, to prevent war in favor of reason.

The American philosopher Henry David Thoreau once said the following about the enhancement of human ethical practice in general:

"Whatever my own practice may be, I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other when they came in contact with the more civilized."

Gradual improvement... It would be a task for philosophy to make that go a bit faster so that barbarism and war can be effectively prevented, in favor for what goods that may unlock for human progress.

Some quotes from PhilosophyTalk.org:

"There is no greater example of mental weakness than the idea that military technology and might is the solution to war. It is this very weakness that fuels our wars. Violence begets violence and nothing more."

--

"A fully mechanized war? The prospect is certainly chilling, especially as adversaries develop the same technology. But maybe this is a reason to question the future of war rather than the current conduct of it. For reasons that have nothing to do with the technology of warfare, war is becoming obsolete. Not only are we too interdependent, but, because of communications, not war, technology we simply know each other too well. It's like the farm animal that has been given a name, you cannot then kill it for food. This is not a technological advancement, it's a human one."

--

"The strongest force is the force that walks the other Way.
To peace,"


--

Being prepared for anything is important when it concerns security as a flaw cannot be permitted. From that perspective, high priority advancement in war technologies may be important.

With modern technologies, preparedness may also be possible with scenario planning, simulation and imagination. When earth works together on the subject 'security' (earth-space security), advancement may go much faster while the weapons would not be used on people.

Project Evergreen and Long View of the U.S. Coast Guard may be an example.

Learning from the future
Humans tend to conceive of time as linear and unidirectional, as moving from past to present to future, with each time frame discrete. We remember yesterday; we experience today; we anticipate tomorrow. But the best scenario planning embraces a decidedly nonlinear conception of time. That’s what Long View and Evergreen did: They took stock of trends in the present, jumped many years into the future, described plausible worlds created by those drivers, worked backward to develop stories about how those worlds had come to pass, and then worked forward again to develop robust strategies.
https://hbr.org/2020/07/learning-from-the-future

https://www.uscg.mil/Portals/0/Strategy ... 20Book.pdf
PsyReporter | “If life were to be good as it was, there would be no reason to exist.”
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UniversalAlien
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by UniversalAlien »

arjand wrote: July 1st, 2021, 2:34 am I do not agree with the argument that by looking at history, that one can conclude that humans are somehow destined to barbarism or war. Many profound philosophers have held such a view but I believe that that view is wrong.

The most basic disposition of life is 'lack of reason'. The origin of that 'issue' lays in the fundamental nature of the origin of life. By logic, life cannot find its origin on the level of an individual which means that it derives its 'actuality' (i.e. the root of conscious experience) from an external factor that is independent of empirical reality, which implies a disposition of 'lack of reason' (to be).

Reason enables to overcome that disposition, and thus for example to overcome a choice for war or barbarism.

Reason enables humans to live in the wild with Grizzly bears (Living with wild Grizzlies). The bears surly see humans as food but a friendship with the wild animal is evidently also possible.

Basic reasoning would enable to demand humans to 'choose' wisely and so to prevent war, rendering the argument by philosophers such as William James (founder of pacifism), that humans are naturally inclined to war, invalid, because of his attempt to prevent war with 'reason', of which it can be said that it ought to be the natural choice in the face of what reason, and its correlated 'human dignity' or its simple interest for long term prosperity, demands.

In short: in my opinion war is for 'dumb' people with no purpose in life. Ego and emotions appear to serve as a catalyst for progress and while it may be argued that 'it works', it may also be possible to argue that when that specific purpose would be taken over by reason and intelligence that it could enhance human progress to a much higher level.

Modern man may be expected to evolve beyond barbarism if it intends to secure longer term prosperity. Intelligence before practice means overcoming darkness before it was ever present, and thus, to prevent war in favor of reason.

The American philosopher Henry David Thoreau once said the following about the enhancement of human ethical practice in general:

"Whatever my own practice may be, I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other when they came in contact with the more civilized."

Gradual improvement... It would be a task for philosophy to make that go a bit faster so that barbarism and war can be effectively prevented, in favor for what goods that may unlock for human progress.

Some quotes from PhilosophyTalk.org:

"There is no greater example of mental weakness than the idea that military technology and might is the solution to war. It is this very weakness that fuels our wars. Violence begets violence and nothing more."

--

"A fully mechanized war? The prospect is certainly chilling, especially as adversaries develop the same technology. But maybe this is a reason to question the future of war rather than the current conduct of it. For reasons that have nothing to do with the technology of warfare, war is becoming obsolete. Not only are we too interdependent, but, because of communications, not war, technology we simply know each other too well. It's like the farm animal that has been given a name, you cannot then kill it for food. This is not a technological advancement, it's a human one."

--

"The strongest force is the force that walks the other Way.
To peace,"


--

Being prepared for anything is important when it concerns security as a flaw cannot be permitted. From that perspective, high priority advancement in war technologies may be important.

With modern technologies, preparedness may also be possible with scenario planning, simulation and imagination. When earth works together on the subject 'security' (earth-space security), advancement may go much faster while the weapons would not be used on people.

Project Evergreen and Long View of the U.S. Coast Guard may be an example.

Learning from the future
Humans tend to conceive of time as linear and unidirectional, as moving from past to present to future, with each time frame discrete. We remember yesterday; we experience today; we anticipate tomorrow. But the best scenario planning embraces a decidedly nonlinear conception of time. That’s what Long View and Evergreen did: They took stock of trends in the present, jumped many years into the future, described plausible worlds created by those drivers, worked backward to develop stories about how those worlds had come to pass, and then worked forward again to develop robust strategies.
https://hbr.org/2020/07/learning-from-the-future

https://www.uscg.mil/Portals/0/Strategy ... 20Book.pdf
On the one hand I agree with all you have written - But the older I get the more cynical I become.

And fear this may be true:

“Only the dead have seen the end of war.”
― Plato



As far as these concepts you mention:
With modern technologies, preparedness may also be possible with scenario planning, simulation and imagination. When earth works together on the subject 'security' (earth-space security), advancement may go much faster while the weapons would not be used on people.

Project Evergreen and Long View of the U.S. Coast Guard may be an example.

Learning from the future
Humans tend to conceive of time as linear and unidirectional, as moving from past to present to future,............
Reminds me of a concept I dreamed up a few years ago:

SCIENCEFICTIONALISM the Way of the FUTURE
We Sciencefictionalists believe in the future - Believe that Man with the support of benign alien beings {most from the future} can design a better future for the Planet Earth and for the Human species now occupying it. WE use all known and rational observation be it scientific or philosophical and postulate future scenarios and potentials that might be achieved by different paths........
http://universalspacealienpeoplesassoci ... uture.html



“Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime.”
― Ernest Hemingway, Ernest Hemingway: A Literary Reference
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by Steve3007 »

Over here, we've been having a war between Northern Ireland and the EU over sausage imports/exports. But the newspaper headlines now say that "the wurst is now over". We also had the "cod wars" with Iceland a few years back. Food fights are always fun.

Best location for the next war: cyberspace.

Most profitable location for the next war: It depends who we're proposing to make the profits. In the novel 1984 by George Orwell, the stated reason for waging wars, according to The Party, was the destruction of the products of human labour so as to keep the population in a perpetual state of deprivation. With that aim in mind, it wouldn't matter where the war is fought so long as it uses up lots of expensive stuff.
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

UniversalAlien wrote: July 1st, 2021, 1:35 am How about, let's say a war between India and China to reduce World population :?:
No war could inflict the number of casualties that would make a significant difference to our global population. A significant and worthwhile reduction might include close to all of us, leaving only a few behind. No war would kill ~7500,000,000 of us.
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by AverageBozo »

As far away from me as possible!
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by UniversalAlien »

AverageBozo wrote: July 1st, 2021, 8:27 pm As far away from me as possible!
See how you are :?:

Trillions of dollars spent every year financing the war industry, employing millions of people, and supplying entertainment and war movies for your entertainment, and you knock the whole game - Don't even want it near you !

Don't you realize without war the belligerent aholes who produce it all might not be able to control themselves - they might turn on you to take out their hostilities.

Remember, all they are saying is 'give war a chance' - Look what it has done for the World so far :!:
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by AverageBozo »

UniversalAlien wrote: July 1st, 2021, 8:42 pm
AverageBozo wrote: July 1st, 2021, 8:27 pm As far away from me as possible!
See how you are :?:

Trillions of dollars spent every year financing the war industry, employing millions of people, and supplying entertainment and war movies for your entertainment, and you knock the whole game - Don't even want it near you !

Don't you realize without war the belligerent aholes who produce it all might not be able to control themselves - they might turn on you to take out their hostilities.

Remember, all they are saying is 'give war a chance' - Look what it has done for the World so far :!:
MAD served its purpose during the Cold War. Applying the same principle (I.e. any war means all out war) globally will force potential combatants to continue their diplomatic efforts endlessly.
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by UniversalAlien »

AverageBozo wrote: July 1st, 2021, 8:27 pm
MAD served its purpose during the Cold War. Applying the same principle (I.e. any war means all out war) globally will force potential combatants to continue their diplomatic efforts endlessly.
And what did it really accomplish? - Remember the Vietnam War? - Over 50,000 American soldiers alone killed.

Never underestimate 'the masters of war' - they love war for its own sake, including the money that can be made off of it :!:

Remember the classic sci fi movie 'Independence Day' about how Humanity stopped an alien invasion?

Really want to celebrate Independence Day :?: - Let's get rid of the masters of war once and for all :!:

And, maybe turn war into a 'virtual game' - and just play sports for Human aggressive impulses :idea:
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by mystery »

War is part of the plan. Evolution includes war, those that survive will replicate and those that don't will not. This assures the best and strongest of the organisms to survive. One day in the future we will also compete for survival with other planets, at that time it is best that we offer our strongest possible. The only way to ensure that is via competitions, war is simply a bar fight on a much larger scale.

The loser dies in the mud and the winner is now more interesting to all the ladies.

For the next war, or the continuation of any that are already running...
Let's pick a place that doesn't have many natural resources that will be damaged, perhaps only sand and sun. Or maybe an island nation or peninsula where we can just slowly feed humans in like a supply line and keep it running for years and years. At the same time, we should pass some laws so that the war will be nice and clean without much mess because we want to be humane in our killing.

Already we have a war on history, history is changed because someone doesn't like it. As that happens the children will not know the truth and then will have the same mistakes because the past is hidden from them by greedy ppl. All demand respect but give none.

It will be the middle of Africa or the middle east, again.
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by Steve3007 »

UniversalAlien wrote:Really want to celebrate Independence Day :?: - Let's get rid of the masters of war once and for all :!:

And, maybe turn war into a 'virtual game' - and just play sports for Human aggressive impulses :idea:
So then there would be no more wars? That sounds like a great idea. I don't know why nobody has ever thought of it before. So, where do we start? What do we do first? What act does "getting rid of the masters of war" require us to perform?
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Re: Where Should the Next War be Staged ?

Post by Steve3007 »

Perhaps we just sing the Dylan song of that name at them until they give up. But as Arlo Guthrie pointed out in the Alice's Restaurant Massacree, "if you wanna end war and stuff you gotta sing loud."
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