Are non-profit organizations more detrimental to communities than beneficial?

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Haliaeetus
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Are non-profit organizations more detrimental to communities than beneficial?

Post by Haliaeetus »

Although many non-profit organizations and charities are rooted in positive goals and ideals, is their existence worthwhile?

Consider this: total revenue for the US government for 2020 was 3.6 trillion dollars. The same year, total revenue for all non-profits in US amounted to 2.5 trillion dollars.

Admittedly, there has to be some sort of positive return for non-profit organizations. Does the return on investment matchup, though? For over 2/3 of the equivalent of government revenue going to support different organizations, is there substantial improvement for the general populace or targeted populations?

Even taking cost out of the equation, is it healthy for communities to have non-profit organizations that function as they do? Is internal community help weakened from the sheer potential number of support groups available? Consider a charitable organization that supports the homeless, as an example. Is a community less likely to involve itself with homeless citizens if there are groups already dedicated toward them, specifically? Or do the existence of these communities make it simply easier for people to look the other way, regardless of how much is invested annually for theses people?
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LuckyR
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Re: Are non-profit organizations more detrimental to communities than beneficial?

Post by LuckyR »

Haliaeetus wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 2:35 am Although many non-profit organizations and charities are rooted in positive goals and ideals, is their existence worthwhile?

Consider this: total revenue for the US government for 2020 was 3.6 trillion dollars. The same year, total revenue for all non-profits in US amounted to 2.5 trillion dollars.

Admittedly, there has to be some sort of positive return for non-profit organizations. Does the return on investment matchup, though? For over 2/3 of the equivalent of government revenue going to support different organizations, is there substantial improvement for the general populace or targeted populations?

Even taking cost out of the equation, is it healthy for communities to have non-profit organizations that function as they do? Is internal community help weakened from the sheer potential number of support groups available? Consider a charitable organization that supports the homeless, as an example. Is a community less likely to involve itself with homeless citizens if there are groups already dedicated toward them, specifically? Or do the existence of these communities make it simply easier for people to look the other way, regardless of how much is invested annually for theses people?
I am a little confused by your post.

Are you arguing against nonprofits because of the loss in tax revenue generated compared to if they were in fact for profit? Or are you arguing against the work that nonprofits perform because it somehow lowers the awareness of the citizenry of the problems they address? Or something else?
"As usual... it depends."
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Sculptor1
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Re: Are non-profit organizations more detrimental to communities than beneficial?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Haliaeetus wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 2:35 am Although many non-profit organizations and charities are rooted in positive goals and ideals, is their existence worthwhile?

Consider this: total revenue for the US government for 2020 was 3.6 trillion dollars. The same year, total revenue for all non-profits in US amounted to 2.5 trillion dollars.

Admittedly, there has to be some sort of positive return for non-profit organizations. Does the return on investment matchup, though? For over 2/3 of the equivalent of government revenue going to support different organizations, is there substantial improvement for the general populace or targeted populations?

Even taking cost out of the equation, is it healthy for communities to have non-profit organizations that function as they do? Is internal community help weakened from the sheer potential number of support groups available? Consider a charitable organization that supports the homeless, as an example. Is a community less likely to involve itself with homeless citizens if there are groups already dedicated toward them, specifically? Or do the existence of these communities make it simply easier for people to look the other way, regardless of how much is invested annually for theses people?
How much of that 3.6 trillion went to feed the military? As the military seems to be little more than a mechanism to destory expensive munnitions, so they can be replaced, and the generally piss-off countries all over the world, to reduce the international repuation of the USA, might one enquire to ask if any of the cash was, perhaps (ahem) wasted?
So it's taken 20 years a trillion dollars and 4 Presidents to replace the Taliban in Afghanistan with the Taliban in afghanistan leaving behind a stronger, bolder and better equipped Taliban army than they ever had before, with improved transport and communications than they had in the 1990.
Compare that with other non-profits.
Maybe its best to look at cases
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Sculptor1
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Re: Are non-profit organizations more detrimental to communities than beneficial?

Post by Sculptor1 »

LuckyR wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 2:59 am
Haliaeetus wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 2:35 am Although many non-profit organizations and charities are rooted in positive goals and ideals, is their existence worthwhile?

Consider this: total revenue for the US government for 2020 was 3.6 trillion dollars. The same year, total revenue for all non-profits in US amounted to 2.5 trillion dollars.

Admittedly, there has to be some sort of positive return for non-profit organizations. Does the return on investment matchup, though? For over 2/3 of the equivalent of government revenue going to support different organizations, is there substantial improvement for the general populace or targeted populations?

Even taking cost out of the equation, is it healthy for communities to have non-profit organizations that function as they do? Is internal community help weakened from the sheer potential number of support groups available? Consider a charitable organization that supports the homeless, as an example. Is a community less likely to involve itself with homeless citizens if there are groups already dedicated toward them, specifically? Or do the existence of these communities make it simply easier for people to look the other way, regardless of how much is invested annually for theses people?
I am a little confused by your post.

Are you arguing against nonprofits because of the loss in tax revenue generated compared to if they were in fact for profit? Or are you arguing against the work that nonprofits perform because it somehow lowers the awareness of the citizenry of the problems they address? Or something else?
Surely most of what the tax is gathered for ispent in a non profit sort of way? So what distinction is he trying to draw?
Haliaeetus
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Re: Are non-profit organizations more detrimental to communities than beneficial?

Post by Haliaeetus »

Both. I’m looking for counter arguments as to why non-profit organizations should be legal.
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LuckyR
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Re: Are non-profit organizations more detrimental to communities than beneficial?

Post by LuckyR »

Haliaeetus wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 9:33 am Both. I’m looking for counter arguments as to why non-profit organizations should be legal.
A couple of things:

First, since they are currently legal, naturally there are reasons why they are. You need to provide counter arguments as to why they should not be legal.

So the Red Cross can't make a go of it since they have to pay taxes, so they go out of business. The government loses the income tax for their paid employees, the states lose the sales tax they pay for the supplies they buy. The flood victims have nowhere to go. FEMA has to increase their participation, driving up the National Deficit (since Congress is too spineless to raise taxes to cover additional needed spending). So we're better off how?
"As usual... it depends."
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Count Lucanor
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Re: Are non-profit organizations more detrimental to communities than beneficial?

Post by Count Lucanor »

Haliaeetus wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 2:35 am Although many non-profit organizations and charities are rooted in positive goals and ideals, is their existence worthwhile?

Consider this: total revenue for the US government for 2020 was 3.6 trillion dollars. The same year, total revenue for all non-profits in US amounted to 2.5 trillion dollars.

Admittedly, there has to be some sort of positive return for non-profit organizations. Does the return on investment matchup, though? For over 2/3 of the equivalent of government revenue going to support different organizations, is there substantial improvement for the general populace or targeted populations?
You show some numbers and ask some questions, but are you making a point? A substantial improvement for the general populace would be reflected on key indicators, but which are the ones you propose as measurement criteria? As far as I'm concerned, a non-profit is justified for the particular goals it seeks and achieves, regardless of all non-profits in general.
Haliaeetus wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 2:35 am Even taking cost out of the equation, is it healthy for communities to have non-profit organizations that function as they do? Is internal community help weakened from the sheer potential number of support groups available? Consider a charitable organization that supports the homeless, as an example. Is a community less likely to involve itself with homeless citizens if there are groups already dedicated toward them, specifically? Or do the existence of these communities make it simply easier for people to look the other way, regardless of how much is invested annually for theses people?
You seem to think a non-profit is necessarily alienated from the community it serves, but that does not seem to be the typical approach of non-profits. Every community has to work out its problems through institutions, private and public. A non-profit is just another organization among many that allow citizen participation. The problem of passive citizenship is obviously not reduced to the work of non-profits, but almost every institution.
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