Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

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UniversalAlien
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Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

Post by UniversalAlien »

Supposedly the Taliban, now apparently in charge of the nation of Afghanistan, do not treat women as equals - In fact they are accused of treating women as lesser entities that are there to do Man's bidding - They say they have changed and as long as it fits their concepts of what is known as Sharia Law, women can have relative rights.

Now in many ways Texas and the 'Christian right wing South' have similar rules - Women are equal except when it comes to reproductive rights which are owned by the state - A women's reproductive organs have been confiscated by the State of Texas so even if she is raped if she becomes pregnant she must have the child who is protected by the State of Texas - Who, in spite of the Constitution of the
United States functions under Christian Fundamentalist law.

Now I have two questions:
1. Is Texas part of the United States of America and functioning under the laws and Constitution of The United States of America, or is Texas an independent country functioning under Fundamentalist Christian law {America's Christian version of Moslem Sharia law} :?:

2. Is a woman today better off in Texas or Afghanistan - Or does it really matter :?:
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

Post by Nick_A »

U A
Now in many ways Texas and the 'Christian right wing South' have similar rules - Women are equal except when it comes to reproductive rights which are owned by the state
This is the essence of the problem. Who or what is owned by the state? If a woman gave birth to a football it be easily proven that it was a non living organism with no past or future so easily disposed of if not used to practice field goal kicking.

A fetus has its own unique genetic code and for some reason begins to grow inside of a woman. She has her own unique DNA so is considered alive and her own boss. The fetus has its own DNA but is owned by the state giving the woman the right to kill it. The problem then is to avoid being owned by the state

Now when women are considered owned by the state, men can have the right to abuse or even kill them. When a woman or a baby are deemed owned by the state they are in an awkward position until people finally determine who owns them: is it the state or a higher authority?
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

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I'm all for women's rights, including the right to abortion. I'm all for the separation of church and state in Texas and Afghanistan, and I'm all against fundamentalists imposing their regressive beliefs in both places, but I must say that comparing Texas laws with Sharia law, even as reproductive rights have lost protection in many parts of USA, is a bit overstated.
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

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Count Lucanor wrote: September 2nd, 2021, 11:30 pm I'm all for women's rights, including the right to abortion. I'm all for the separation of church and state in Texas and Afghanistan, and I'm all against fundamentalists imposing their regressive beliefs in both places, but I must say that comparing Texas laws with Sharia law, even as reproductive rights have lost protection in many parts of USA, is a bit overstated.
Maybe - BUT we do not live in Afghanistan - we are supposedly protected by concepts of separation of church and state. The United States is not a 'white Christian republic' as many on the right, the same right that is pushing these restrictive abortion laws, want their followers to believe - And the new conservative Supreme Court has at least temporarily sustained the new Texas law.

See it as you want - But in my mind:

A Moslem Fundamentalist and a Christian Fundamentalist are equal. The Devil being only in the details of how they enforce their intolerant and prejudicial views on the rest of society.

Now that the Taliban has won maybe some Christian Fundamentalist should go over there and make friends?
- Oh I forget - Christianity is illegal over there, isn't it?
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

Post by Count Lucanor »

UniversalAlien wrote: September 3rd, 2021, 12:59 pm
Count Lucanor wrote: September 2nd, 2021, 11:30 pm I'm all for women's rights, including the right to abortion. I'm all for the separation of church and state in Texas and Afghanistan, and I'm all against fundamentalists imposing their regressive beliefs in both places, but I must say that comparing Texas laws with Sharia law, even as reproductive rights have lost protection in many parts of USA, is a bit overstated.
Maybe - BUT we do not live in Afghanistan - we are supposedly protected by concepts of separation of church and state. The United States is not a 'white Christian republic' as many on the right, the same right that is pushing these restrictive abortion laws, want their followers to believe - And the new conservative Supreme Court has at least temporarily sustained the new Texas law.

See it as you want - But in my mind:

A Moslem Fundamentalist and a Christian Fundamentalist are equal. The Devil being only in the details of how they enforce their intolerant and prejudicial views on the rest of society.

Now that the Taliban has won maybe some Christian Fundamentalist should go over there and make friends?
- Oh I forget - Christianity is illegal over there, isn't it?
I agree: the Christian right is in many ways not so much different than the Taliban and their vision of society is very similar. Yet, I don't think one can compare the grip the Muslim fundamentalists have on their country with the one Christian fundamentalists have on theirs, which is not to say one should not keep an eye on them. The fact is, answering your second question in the OP, a woman today is still better off in Texas than in Afghanistan.
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

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UniversalAlien wrote: September 2nd, 2021, 7:42 pm Supposedly the Taliban, now apparently in charge of the nation of Afghanistan, do not treat women as equals - In fact they are accused of treating women as lesser entities that are there to do Man's bidding - They say they have changed and as long as it fits their concepts of what is known as Sharia Law, women can have relative rights.

Now in many ways Texas and the 'Christian right wing South' have similar rules - Women are equal except when it comes to reproductive rights which are owned by the state - A women's reproductive organs have been confiscated by the State of Texas so even if she is raped if she becomes pregnant she must have the child who is protected by the State of Texas - Who, in spite of the Constitution of the
United States functions under Christian Fundamentalist law.

Now I have two questions:
1. Is Texas part of the United States of America and functioning under the laws and Constitution of The United States of America, or is Texas an independent country functioning under Fundamentalist Christian law {America's Christian version of Moslem Sharia law} :?:

2. Is a woman today better off in Texas or Afghanistan - Or does it really matter :?:
Correction: that Texas stuff you quoted is for poor people. Rich folks can fly to New Orleans and get their daughter an abortion, do some shopping and hit a 4 star restaurant for dinner.
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

Post by UniversalAlien »

Count Lucanor wrote:
The fact is, answering your second question in the OP, a woman today is still better off in Texas than in Afghanistan.
Are you sure :?:

True we do not know exactly how the Taliban will interpret Shari Law but an overview of other Moslem countries
ca. 2019 shows this:

"The United States prides itself on being the land of the free and the home of the brave, a place that protects individual liberty and prizes privacy. Yet the freedom of women in the US is increasingly being threatened by highly restrictive abortion bans, passed at the state level, which violate the US Constitution. These laws make the legal codes of many Muslim-majority societies in the Middle East and North Africa seem more free, a fact that may surprise freedom-prizing Americans.

Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported this week (paywall) that the abortion bans just passed in Alabama and Georgia are more restrictive than prohibitions in about half of the Muslim-majority countries in the Middle East. Leila Hessini, vice president of the Global Fund for Women, which promotes gender equality initiatives worldwide, tells the publication, “There is not the same level of fervor, violence, and attacks on women and providers as in the US—we’re not seeing right now in the Middle East and North Africa a desire to make laws more punitive and more restrictive for women who need abortions and providers. We are seeing that in the US.”

" In Saudi Arabia, abortion is allowed in cases of risk to a woman’s life and to protect her physical and mental health. A pregnancy arising from incest or rape might qualify for a legal abortion there under the mental health exemption. Saudi women just got the freedom to drive last year, but it seems they have less to fear when it comes to terminating pregnancies than women in Alabama." {Not to mention the Texas Law just passed which is much worse :!: }


https://qz.com/1628427/saudi-arabias-ab ... -alabamas/


We do not know how today's Taliban will treat woman in Afghanistan - We already know that they are being treated as common
breeding animals in Texas :!:
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

Post by Count Lucanor »

UniversalAlien wrote: September 4th, 2021, 5:28 am
Count Lucanor wrote:
The fact is, answering your second question in the OP, a woman today is still better off in Texas than in Afghanistan.
Are you sure :?:

[...]

We do not know how today's Taliban will treat woman in Afghanistan - We already know that they are being treated as common
breeding animals in Texas :!:
I understand your concern about what is going on in Texas with the regressive abortion laws, I do think it is terrible. It is so upsetting that one is tempted to make an emphatic denouncing statement comparing Texas to an antiliberal, tribal, theocratical regime. However, that's a bit exaggerated. There are similarities, but also obvious differences. Note, for example that a good amount of the lobbysts and politicians behind these Texas laws are women themselves, all of them empowered women.
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

Post by LuckyR »

Count Lucanor wrote: September 4th, 2021, 9:42 pm
UniversalAlien wrote: September 4th, 2021, 5:28 am
Count Lucanor wrote:
The fact is, answering your second question in the OP, a woman today is still better off in Texas than in Afghanistan.
Are you sure :?:

[...]

We do not know how today's Taliban will treat woman in Afghanistan - We already know that they are being treated as common
breeding animals in Texas :!:
I understand your concern about what is going on in Texas with the regressive abortion laws, I do think it is terrible. It is so upsetting that one is tempted to make an emphatic denouncing statement comparing Texas to an antiliberal, tribal, theocratical regime. However, that's a bit exaggerated. There are similarities, but also obvious differences. Note, for example that a good amount of the lobbysts and politicians behind these Texas laws are women themselves, all of them empowered women.
Excellent observation, this is at least as much a socio-economic issue as a gender one.
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

Post by UniversalAlien »

So they say:

........comparing Texas to an antiliberal, tribal, theocratical regime. However, that's a bit exaggerated. There are similarities, but also obvious differences. Note, for example that a good amount of the lobbysts and politicians behind these Texas laws are women themselves, all of them empowered women.

Excellent observation, this is at least as much a socio-economic issue as a gender one.
I see what you are saying - So let me clarify what I am saying:

I see it as much, much worse than a cultural anomaly where we can compare Moslem vs. Christian ideology and and its enforcement.

I see it as a left over remnant of the 'Inquisition' and the 'witch hunts' of the middle ages where women where systematically tortured and burned alive by a sick bunch of Devils supposedly doing the work of God.
- These evil and ill conceived anti abortion laws to supposedly protect the unborn from the evils of the living are sick - And the people trying to push the agenda are at least sick, if not insane.

I saw a proponent of the anti-abortion agenda on TV a few years ago trying to explain himself - He grew teary eyed as he started to cry about those poor unborn babies, as if he felt personally responsible to be sure he they all get born. And how many doctors have been attacked, and in some cases even murdered by these crazy devils supposedly doing the work of god :?:

In my opinion we are not dealing with politics or philosophy - These anti abortion laws, more than anything are based upon mental illness, the same type of sick minds that gave the World the Inquisition and Witch hunts of the past.

So go ahead accuse me over exaggerating - But I say it will never stop with just abortions, when you let the mentally ill take over politics and law the worst is yet to come :!:
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

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UniversalAlien wrote: September 2nd, 2021, 7:42 pm Is a woman today better off in Texas or Afghanistan - Or does it really matter :?:
I see the two as being directly comparable, although perhaps there is a difference of degree? I don't know enough details to be sure.

Does it matter? Yes.
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

Post by chewybrian »

Pattern-chaser wrote: September 5th, 2021, 10:35 am
UniversalAlien wrote: September 2nd, 2021, 7:42 pm Is a woman today better off in Texas or Afghanistan - Or does it really matter :?:
I see the two as being directly comparable, although perhaps there is a difference of degree? I don't know enough details to be sure.

Does it matter? Yes.
I don't want to glorify Texas, and I don't agree with their religious-based anti-abortion law, which I think will be struck down eventually. However, nobody is being held against their will there. Women are allowed to go to school, they don't have to hide their faces, they can drive a car and enjoy every other right that a man would enjoy, like owning guns or whatever. This is actually quite a contrast between what Taliban rule was in the past and presumably will be going forward. They've as much as said so:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/th ... ar-AANvcxZ
“There will be no democratic system at all,” Taliban commander Waheedullah Hashimi said in an interview with Reuters. “We will not discuss what type of political system should we apply in Afghanistan because it is clear. It is sharia law and that is it.”

When the Taliban last controlled the country, from 1996 to 2001, the militants enforced a harsh interpretation of sharia law. Women were forced to wear burqas — the head-to-toe, face-covering garment — and could face beatings if they ventured outside on their own without a male guardian.

Schools for girls were shut. People who violated the Taliban’s rules could be publicly executed, whipped or stoned.
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

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chewybrian wrote: September 5th, 2021, 1:56 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote: September 5th, 2021, 10:35 am
UniversalAlien wrote: September 2nd, 2021, 7:42 pm Is a woman today better off in Texas or Afghanistan - Or does it really matter :?:
I see the two as being directly comparable, although perhaps there is a difference of degree? I don't know enough details to be sure.

Does it matter? Yes.
I don't want to glorify Texas, and I don't agree with their religious-based anti-abortion law, which I think will be struck down eventually. However, nobody is being held against their will there. Women are allowed to go to school, they don't have to hide their faces, they can drive a car and enjoy every other right that a man would enjoy, like owning guns or whatever. This is actually quite a contrast between what Taliban rule was in the past and presumably will be going forward. They've as much as said so:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/th ... ar-AANvcxZ
“There will be no democratic system at all,” Taliban commander Waheedullah Hashimi said in an interview with Reuters. “We will not discuss what type of political system should we apply in Afghanistan because it is clear. It is sharia law and that is it.”

When the Taliban last controlled the country, from 1996 to 2001, the militants enforced a harsh interpretation of sharia law. Women were forced to wear burqas — the head-to-toe, face-covering garment — and could face beatings if they ventured outside on their own without a male guardian.

Schools for girls were shut. People who violated the Taliban’s rules could be publicly executed, whipped or stoned.
Sure, not as bad in Texas - yet.....
maybe?

But let's go forward with this same 'right to life' ideology and see where it can lead.
Under this Texas abortion law a woman would theoretically lose the right to her own body once pregnant, no matter how she got pregnant including rape and incest - She is now committed by law to defend the unborn baby inside her, no matter how the baby got there until it is born.

Like some dystopian science fiction future ['The Handmaid's Tale' - "..... following a Second American Civil War wherein a totalitarian society subjects fertile women, called "Handmaids", to child-bearing slavery."] Isn't this what this Texas 'right to life' abortion law is all about :?:

The argument can be made that bringing children into a World run by such meat-heads is child abuse to begin with :idea:

Why would anyone want to have children in a world that encourages them to have children they never wanted in the first place :?:
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

Post by Count Lucanor »

Let me put it this way: the new laws in Texas have pushed its citizens a little more than half a century back in history. Afghanistan with the Talibans are going backwards several centuries and are a bit closer to the Middle Ages.
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Re: Texas, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Women's Rights

Post by Alias »

UniversalAlien wrote: September 2nd, 2021, 7:42 pm Now I have two questions:
1. Is Texas part of the United States of America and functioning under the laws and Constitution of The United States of America, or is Texas an independent country functioning under Fundamentalist Christian law {America's Christian version of Moslem Sharia law} :?:
Texas was only a reluctant part of the United States the first time. It gained independence from Mexico, but then requested to be annexed by the US a decade later to escape a second war, while the US was negotiating for California. It was a very bad deal for the US, and a really bad deal for 100,000 or so soldiers, because Texas was a slave state and if the slave states hadn't been overconfident, the whole Civil war might have been avoided.
2. Is a woman today better off in Texas or Afghanistan - Or does it really matter :?:
She can leave Texas. Even if she stays, she only faces the risk of lawsuits, not public humiliation and death. It matters.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
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