What Now? with the Pandemic

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gad-fly
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What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by gad-fly »

It is ironic that what the world concerns most is least raised in this forum. The present pandemic is typical. Even if raised, expect topical interest to be mild and vanishing, and that is an understatement. I raised Climate Change recently, when COP26 was held for 9 days in Glasgow attended by world leaders, and what happened? The few replies can be summed up as: Yeah, I do care, but what can I do; I shall wear short-sleeve more often. The only excuse I can find in the reaction is that we have a very special breed here.

First let me answer the titled question. I am not optimistic, at least in the short and medium term. Again, that is an understatement. Even with hindsight, I am not about to state that governmental safety network for those stricken by the pandemic is out of bound or outrageous. It is urgent to react according to the circumstance. Emergency does not allow time for cool consideration.

I am more concerned about what we should do next. Some school may advocate continuing printing money to distribute to those in need, as long as the distribution is fair and fast. I believe we are already living beyond our means, in borrowed time, with the borrower being us in the future, or more likely, our future generation. It sure is easy to borrow from someone who cannot say No, and who do not have the vote. Should we bite the bullet now, so to speak, and exercise discipline to endure on what is due, and suffer the consequence, even though that consequence is unfairly casted on us? The good side is that if we can scrap through the debacle, at least we would have learned a lesson. Call it triumph of our civilization. We should feel proud, but it is more than that, of course. The bad side is the casually we have to face immediately, but in the end, it probably does not make difference either way as long as the casualty is concerned.

No question about that. Pay with what is in the wallet, or borrow now and pay later, hopefully not by us.
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JackDaydream
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by JackDaydream »

@Gad-fly
I did create a thread on this topic and I was hoping that it would link the personal with the wider issues of what comes next. But, my thread fizzled after about 2 days. But, I do wonder to what extent at all the pandemic has woken people up to to social and global issues.

It has definitely meant that more people are thrown into poverty. I have never seen as many people living on the streets in London(and my hometown Bedford). It seems that some people care about what is happening while others are so caught up in their everyday lives, especially if there lives are fairly secure. Everyone is able to catch the virus but some are more likely to fair better. Those with money are able to isolate in luxury whereas some in overcrowded conditions and with difficulties in life circumstances may have a lot more hardships in the process.

The problem is that the pandemic is far from over. In England many people had their 3rd vaccine and there is still big fear that lockdowns may be on the way. I remember in the first lockdown in summer 2020 a friend saying that it would be all forgotten by Christmas. The complete opposite happened with a lockdown straight after Christmas when lasted until spring. Even now, many aspects of life have not resumed, such as face to face GP appointments. Potentially, with the many new variants it could go on for years and years. How are people going to survive? Indeed, what comes next and I do link it with the need to look at Mr Climate Change because it is about disaster management and the entire issue of the future of humanity.
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LuckyR
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by LuckyR »

Several things. First, what made Covid such a big deal in 2020 was that at first no one was immune to it (as opposed to being inherently virulent). At this point, most people have either recovered from a bout with it or have been vaccinated. There are enough who have done neither to keep a certain number of people in the hospital and dying, but that is a shrinking minority, instead of 100% of all people 2 years ago. We just need to get to the point that Covid is another "version" of the flu ie. it makes you miss some work if you get it but are otherwise healthy and it kills tens of thousands of already sickly people every year and you get vaccinated every year. We're familiar with that.
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stevie
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by stevie »

gad-fly wrote: December 19th, 2021, 4:56 pm It is ironic that what the world concerns most is least raised in this forum.
What the world concers most is discussed up and down in all media (internet, TV, newspaper). There is no opinion about it that hasn't already been uttered hundreds of times by many different people. Why on earth should this forum that is dedicated to philosophy be polluted with the same thematic cacophony of irrelevant ungrounded opinions? :roll:
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Sculptor1
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by Sculptor1 »

Technocrats serving the demogogic economists are who govern.
They govern under the direction of temporary tyrrants who are locked in to unfulfilable promises made during the election cycle.
Whilst most of these promises never get to policy they underlie the day to day modifications demanded by the gutter press which is controled by a handful of billionares, who have the power of life and death of those tyrrants.
COP was a performance act and will achieve little or nothing.
Vaccination strategies are designed to jab the rich nations whilst leaving the rest of the world as fertile grounds for the virus to continue to mutate.

Things are bad.
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Empiricist-Bruno
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 24th, 2021, 6:52 pm Technocrats serving the demogogic economists are who govern.
They govern under the direction of temporary tyrrants who are locked in to unfulfilable promises made during the election cycle.
Whilst most of these promises never get to policy they underlie the day to day modifications demanded by the gutter press which is controled by a handful of billionares, who have the power of life and death of those tyrrants.
COP was a performance act and will achieve little or nothing.
Vaccination strategies are designed to jab the rich nations whilst leaving the rest of the world as fertile grounds for the virus to continue to mutate.

Things are bad.
The Covid vaccine is the product of enormous and useless animal cruelty. Given this fact, I wonder who would think it could possibly be used to achieve commendable goals.
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Empiricist-Bruno
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

LuckyR wrote: December 20th, 2021, 4:38 am Several things. First, what made Covid such a big deal in 2020 was that at first no one was immune to it (as opposed to being inherently virulent). At this point, most people have either recovered from a bout with it or have been vaccinated. There are enough who have done neither to keep a certain number of people in the hospital and dying, but that is a shrinking minority, instead of 100% of all people 2 years ago. We just need to get to the point that Covid is another "version" of the flu ie. it makes you miss some work if you get it but are otherwise healthy and it kills tens of thousands of already sickly people every year and you get vaccinated every year. We're familiar with that.
We're also familiar with cockroaches and bed bugs in homes. So, why not just welcome this latest newcomer? Who do you work for?
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Empiricist-Bruno
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

gad-fly wrote: December 19th, 2021, 4:56 pm
First let me answer the titled question. I am not optimistic, at least in the short and medium term. Again, that is an understatement. Even with hindsight, I am not about to state that governmental safety network for those stricken by the pandemic is out of bound or outrageous. It is urgent to react according to the circumstance. Emergency does not allow time for cool consideration.

I am more concerned about what we should do next. Some school may advocate continuing printing money to distribute to those in need, as long as the distribution is fair and fast. I believe we are already living beyond our means, in borrowed time, with the borrower being us in the future, or more likely, our future generation. It sure is easy to borrow from someone who cannot say No, and who do not have the vote. Should we bite the bullet now, so to speak, and exercise discipline to endure on what is due, and suffer the consequence, even though that consequence is unfairly casted on us? The good side is that if we can scrap through the debacle, at least we would have learned a lesson. Call it triumph of our civilization. We should feel proud, but it is more than that, of course. The bad side is the casually we have to face immediately, but in the end, it probably does not make difference either way as long as the casualty is concerned.

No question about that. Pay with what is in the wallet, or borrow now and pay later, hopefully not by us.
My biggest concern is the inequality and division this disease has helped to highlight. Billionaires have made money from this pandemic. I think the vast majority of people don't understand the root cause of the disease because otherwise a product of animal cruelty (the COVID-19 vaccine) would be widely rejected as a potential solution to the problem, and planes would not be allowed to fly.
So, I think things will get much worse and fundamental changes will need to be made to society and in the hearts of most people before you can produce a population that is able to deal effectively with this.
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Sculptor1
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by Sculptor1 »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: December 26th, 2021, 9:53 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 24th, 2021, 6:52 pm Technocrats serving the demogogic economists are who govern.
They govern under the direction of temporary tyrrants who are locked in to unfulfilable promises made during the election cycle.
Whilst most of these promises never get to policy they underlie the day to day modifications demanded by the gutter press which is controled by a handful of billionares, who have the power of life and death of those tyrrants.
COP was a performance act and will achieve little or nothing.
Vaccination strategies are designed to jab the rich nations whilst leaving the rest of the world as fertile grounds for the virus to continue to mutate.

Things are bad.
The Covid vaccine is the product of enormous and useless animal cruelty.
Is it? Please cite!
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LuckyR
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by LuckyR »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: December 26th, 2021, 9:59 am
LuckyR wrote: December 20th, 2021, 4:38 am Several things. First, what made Covid such a big deal in 2020 was that at first no one was immune to it (as opposed to being inherently virulent). At this point, most people have either recovered from a bout with it or have been vaccinated. There are enough who have done neither to keep a certain number of people in the hospital and dying, but that is a shrinking minority, instead of 100% of all people 2 years ago. We just need to get to the point that Covid is another "version" of the flu ie. it makes you miss some work if you get it but are otherwise healthy and it kills tens of thousands of already sickly people every year and you get vaccinated every year. We're familiar with that.
We're also familiar with cockroaches and bed bugs in homes. So, why not just welcome this latest newcomer? Who do you work for?
"Welcoming" has nothing to do with it. Viruses are going to do what they are going to do, regardless of your personal feelings about them.

I'm retired, who do you work for?
"As usual... it depends."
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Sculptor1
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by Sculptor1 »

Profiteering.
The Cambridge Astra zenica costs £1 per dose and is offered at cost.
The Pfizer vaccine costs £22 per dose and is not offered at cost.

Some are profiting, some are not.
gad-fly
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by gad-fly »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: December 26th, 2021, 10:12 am
My biggest concern is the inequality and division this disease has helped to highlight. Billionaires have made money from this pandemic. I think the vast majority of people don't understand the root cause of the disease because otherwise a product of animal cruelty (the COVID-19 vaccine) would be widely rejected as a potential solution to the problem, and planes would not be allowed to fly.
So, I think things will get much worse and fundamental changes will need to be made to society and in the hearts of most people before you can produce a population that is able to deal effectively with this.
The root cause? Epidemic comes and goes. Rarely, it turns pandemic before it goes. Once in a blue moon, beyond control. No pint to pass the buck.

Population to deal effectively with it? You mean the medical profession in the population? Vaccine is the only effective agent to deal with it.

What now? We are doing the best we can. What next? We learn our lesson, and we are better prepared.
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JackDaydream
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by JackDaydream »

@gad-fly
It is hard to know what comes next. There are so many ambiguities. In some places, it is hard to get any face to face interaction. But in other places people mingle freely.

It is even the same with climate change. Ecxcees or complete minimalism? How does one determine the consequences of each action and find the right balance? I know that you are in favour of thinking about climate change and I am not in disagreement. It is simply that each of us is trying to find a way forward daily; trying to juggle the odds, and our own footprints in the chains of causality.

It is not easy, even if one really cares. Emotional concerns about the wellbeing of others and the environment need to be met with rationality. Navigating all of this is complex.
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LuckyR
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Re: What Now? with the Pandemic

Post by LuckyR »

JackDaydream wrote: January 10th, 2022, 4:50 pm @ gad-fly
It is hard to know what comes next. There are so many ambiguities. In some places, it is hard to get any face to face interaction. But in other places people mingle freely.

It is even the same with climate change. Ecxcees or complete minimalism? How does one determine the consequences of each action and find the right balance? I know that you are in favour of thinking about climate change and I am not in disagreement. It is simply that each of us is trying to find a way forward daily; trying to juggle the odds, and our own footprints in the chains of causality.

It is not easy, even if one really cares. Emotional concerns about the wellbeing of others and the environment need to be met with rationality. Navigating all of this is complex.
Not that hard. Omicron is the end of the pandemic. Highly contagious yet not that virulent. Thus everybody not otherwise immune can get mild disease, develop immunity that way, then everyone has some form of immunity and it basically becomes the flu: never goes away, kills tens of thousands of the vulnerable every year and there is an updated shot available every year. Been there, done that.
"As usual... it depends."
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