The Lockean Basis for USA's Natural Rights

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GE Morton
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Joined: February 1st, 2017, 1:06 am

Re: The Lockean Basis for USA's Natural Rights

Post by GE Morton »

Ecurb wrote: May 13th, 2022, 10:31 am
For Hobbes and Locke, "natural rights' meant "God-given rights" (correct me if I'm wrong, you're the expert on Hobbes and Locke).
Yes, it means that, metaphorically speaking --- "God" being a synonym for "nature."

To understand "natural rights" you first have to understand what is a "right." In the liberal and common law tradition, it denotes a certain relationship between a person and some thing (a property right) or a freedom to act in a certain way (a liberty right). For a property right, the relationship is that the person acquired the thing to which he claims a right "righteously," i.e., without inflicting harm or loss on any other person. For a liberty right, the act is "righteous" if it does not inflict harm or loss on any other person. A "natural" --- "God-given" --- property right is a right to things you acquired naturally, things you brought with you into the world, such as your life, body, various abilities, capacities, talents. A natural liberty right is the right to act in any way within your natural powers, provided you inflict no loss or injury on anyone else.
Eusocial insects aside, I think the divinity of man, created in God's image, persists in an atheistic age. For you, it is called "moral agency". If we stop differentiating between humans and other animals, perhaps we can see that any natural rights that exist for humans may also exist for other animals. Many animals are clearly "moral agents" (although on a different level from humans).
Well, moral agency has nothing to do with divinity or "God's image." The term just denotes creatures capable of formulating and understanding moral rules, and of recognizing other qualifying creatures as likewise so capable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_agency
I'm not sure DNA "forces" anything. All behaviors result from a combination of nature and nurture; from genetic and environmental influences. This is true for humans and for other animals. If we step on an ant, its DNA won't force it to do anything but die.
That's all true, but what sort of environments eusocial creatures seek out and how they respond to environmental variables is itself determined by their DNA. Eusocial insects do not have "free will."
Ecurb
Posts: 2138
Joined: May 9th, 2012, 3:13 pm

Re: The Lockean Basis for USA's Natural Rights

Post by Ecurb »

GE Morton wrote: May 13th, 2022, 1:37 pm

Well, moral agency has nothing to do with divinity or "God's image." The term just denotes creatures capable of formulating and understanding moral rules, and of recognizing other qualifying creatures as likewise so capable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_agency
Perhaps. But it has the same effect -- which is to affirm the morally unique quality of human beings (since, acc. to you, we are the only creatures we know of that are "moral agents"). IN the past, this unique quality was due to our being created "in God's image". It seems to me that atheists want to reject the "God's image" bit, but reaffirm the unique moral quality of humans. Perhaps some of our vegan mods can chime in.
GE Morton
Posts: 4696
Joined: February 1st, 2017, 1:06 am

Re: The Lockean Basis for USA's Natural Rights

Post by GE Morton »

Ecurb wrote: May 13th, 2022, 2:16 pm
Perhaps. But it has the same effect -- which is to affirm the morally unique quality of human beings (since, acc. to you, we are the only creatures we know of that are "moral agents"). IN the past, this unique quality was due to our being created "in God's image". It seems to me that atheists want to reject the "God's image" bit, but reaffirm the unique moral quality of humans. Perhaps some of our vegan mods can chime in.
Well, humans do indeed have unique moral status (on this world, at any rate). That is quite self-evident. But that other creatures are not moral agents doesn't mean they have no moral status, or standing. They --- some of them --- are "moral subjects," or "moral patients."

https://r.jordan.im/download/ethics/Mor ... tients.pdf
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