Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑February 15th, 2022, 10:09 amNo, my position is that 'no man is an island'. No-one is solely an individual. We are all individuals who are also part of many human social groups. Sometimes, some of these groups require certain behaviour of their members. Sometimes, that is even for the good of all. But this coercion, if you want to call it that, is part of what groups do. They do other things too, of course.Empiricist-Bruno wrote: ↑February 14th, 2022, 7:20 pm Who wants to tell me mandatory (forced-they go house to house with the vaccine and anyone running away gets shot by the accompanying police) vaccination is not an evil worth fighting against? If you support forcing people to do things you feel they should do maybe you live under a dictatorship? That might explains your position.
Women too, of course. It's the famous quote that I was referring to:Empiricist-Bruno wrote: ↑February 16th, 2022, 3:14 pm Your position is that "No man is an island'. How about women, then? And "No one is solely an individual" , but where do animals fit in this paradigm? Are they also more than individuals, too? Do they (or some of them ) make coercive group decisions too?
Given all the animals killed in the making of the Covid vaccine, it certainly wasn't made for the good of all, and I think you can agree to that.
John Donne wrote:No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as any manner of thy friends or of thine own were; any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
As for animals, well, the sub-topic here is social behaviour and social connection(s), and many animal species indulge in such antics. So those animals would surely also be included in what we're describing.The words ‘No man is an island’ were embedded in a deeply Christian sermon about how human beings are connected to each other, and how important that connection is for the wellbeing and survival of any individual. When you hear the church bell tolling for someone who has died, don’t ask who it is, Donne says, just know that it’s tolling for you too because you are part of the same society and the death of anyone takes a part of your own life away. [Link to source.]
As for your final question, animal testing is a vexed topic. I can see the POV of the vivisectionists, whose view is solely pro-human, and indifferent to animals, and I can see your view just as clearly. I can see justifications for both perspectives, and find it difficult to resolve. If you ask the same question about testing cosmetics on animals, I see the pro-animal case as being a great deal stronger and more difficult to set aside.