Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

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Empiricist-Bruno
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Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

As a vegan, I do oppose both the vaccine (because the product is animal tested) and the privilege given to those who become vaccinated. From the start, I, a vegan, felt quite isolated facing this government attack on what I felt was the vegan breed. But then as most of my vegan friends got their vaccines, I realized that there was no such thing as the vegan breed because most of them don't follow principles but rather self-interest. So, the vegans whom I would have expected to be the most staunch opponents of the government's policy simply abandoned ship and seemed happy to do so as it is safer for them rather than assuming the deadly risk of going through a pandemic unvaccinated, period.

And then true opposition started to emerge from the truckers who were told to get there vaccine or else no more border crossing for them. Unlike vegans, they do not appear to have core values that would push them to protest the way they are doing. They say they feel they should be free. Regulations as to how you should proceed to live your free life are fine with truckers as they agree to have a permit to drive and follow the rules of the road that they share. But is vaccination a new rule of the road? How is protecting the personal health of truck drivers through vaccination going to improve trucking? I mean seatbelts are tied to the means of transportation, the truck, and so the seatbelts belong to trucking and thus can be mandated but unless you can vaccinate a truck, vaccination isn't about trucking, and imposing vaccination on some group does set up a questionable precedent. So, the protest is not so much about freedom as they are about disputing the authority of those telling you that you need to have a vaccine, or else...

When you think about it, what kind of a government would think they have the authority to force some groups to get a vaccine? The answer that comes to mind is a condescending government. In perhaps most people's mind, the government is there to serve you and if it starts to appear condescending toward its people then that government has to back off and if it doesn't, it must be replaced. So that's my take on what's going on.

So, as a vegan, should I support these truckers? I do want liberty for all, including animals, and so why not support the unvaccinated truckers given that I oppose the animal tested vaccine in the first place? I am certainly not too fond of the current government as it betrayed it's people in getting elected with a promise of proportional representation that they never intended to keep. But I am not naive. Truckers aren't selfless vegans who want freedom for others (even as they may claim that, like fake vegans who get vaccinated with an animal tested vaccine and claim to be for animal freedom-I know about that) they want freedom for themselves, a bit like a childish tamper tantrum.

And I feel I can't support that either. What are my options here? Going to a trucker protest with a sign, "Become vegans and then you will get my full support"?

I am also afraid of all the hatred that the government allows to simmer towards the truckers. That seems to be the strategy the government is using to get the general population on their sides, yet, the government must also be careful that the economy does not suffers too much as they could be blamed for allowing this to happen. Maybe I should go to the trucker protest with a sign saying, "I do support the temper tantrum of truckers, feedom matters"?

But ultimately, I don't see a resolution to this. I fear the rise of the temper tantrum could escalate dangerously, and taking sides in a battle where I feel I have little to gain either way may not be something good for me. For now, I am happy that plants across the border are being shut down as it helps reduce CO2 production, but it's clear to me that those who shut things down care little about not increasing CO2 levels in the atmosphere. Yep, my sign at the protest should be, "Hey truckers, why don't you ask them for oil pipe shut down while you are at it?" Humor may be the best way to go here, right?
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by AverageBozo »

EB

As long as you have good medical coverage you can carry any one of your signs. Truckers on the verge of violence may not welcome your support as a niche advocate, in their eyes.

Really? Vaccinations for trucks? You’re better than to say that.
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by AverageBozo »

EB

Seriously, as you know, you are in a tough position—you have deeply held convictions about which the majority of the world is neither concerned nor supportive.

I don’t think you can convince many people to agree with you either in principle or in practice. You can, however, turn a few heads toward a vegan way of life, or at least so much as to consider veganism.

As a veteran of the society that witnessed the war protests of the 70’s, I suggest that you do something that derives some publicity and is non-violent and legal. You may at least increase awareness.

Good luck to you!
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

AverageBozo wrote: February 13th, 2022, 2:59 pm EB

Seriously, as you know, you are in a tough position—you have deeply held convictions about which the majority of the world is neither concerned nor supportive.

I don’t think you can convince many people to agree with you either in principle or in practice. You can, however, turn a few heads toward a vegan way of life, or at least so much as to consider veganism.

As a veteran of the society that witnessed the war protests of the 70’s, I suggest that you do something that derives some publicity and is non-violent and legal. You may at least increase awareness.

Good luck to you!
Thanks for that averageBozo,

Yes, I need to be careful indeed but somehow, the bigger danger might simply be to be identified as an open supporter of the truckers given all the resentment growing toward them.

A large sign saying, "Vegans Support Truckers' Protest" might work even better. No trucker would be upset at that and those who might be the most offended are the fake vegans who support the vaccine and who believe to be the voice of the vegan movement. Maybe I would have more to fear from them, ha ha then from the truckers. I guess I am ok with that, as I am ok to go through this pandemic without an animal tested vaccine in my body. It's a risk and it's the risk you're willing to take do help define you. Let's get the placard and the marker now...
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by AgentSmith »

What's so problematic about getting the rexommended 3 jabs for Covid?

1. At worst, it's 3 days (24 hours/shot).
2. It's relatively cheap.
3. It's good for business (vaccine passports).
4. It prevents illness & death.

Is freedom/democracy at stake?

The OP mentions seatbelts. How different are mandatory seatbelts and helmets from compulsory vaccination?
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by LuckyR »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: February 13th, 2022, 10:40 am As a vegan, I do oppose both the vaccine (because the product is animal tested) and the privilege given to those who become vaccinated. From the start, I, a vegan, felt quite isolated facing this government attack on what I felt was the vegan breed. But then as most of my vegan friends got their vaccines, I realized that there was no such thing as the vegan breed because most of them don't follow principles but rather self-interest. So, the vegans whom I would have expected to be the most staunch opponents of the government's policy simply abandoned ship and seemed happy to do so as it is safer for them rather than assuming the deadly risk of going through a pandemic unvaccinated, period.

And then true opposition started to emerge from the truckers who were told to get there vaccine or else no more border crossing for them. Unlike vegans, they do not appear to have core values that would push them to protest the way they are doing. They say they feel they should be free. Regulations as to how you should proceed to live your free life are fine with truckers as they agree to have a permit to drive and follow the rules of the road that they share. But is vaccination a new rule of the road? How is protecting the personal health of truck drivers through vaccination going to improve trucking? I mean seatbelts are tied to the means of transportation, the truck, and so the seatbelts belong to trucking and thus can be mandated but unless you can vaccinate a truck, vaccination isn't about trucking, and imposing vaccination on some group does set up a questionable precedent. So, the protest is not so much about freedom as they are about disputing the authority of those telling you that you need to have a vaccine, or else...

When you think about it, what kind of a government would think they have the authority to force some groups to get a vaccine? The answer that comes to mind is a condescending government. In perhaps most people's mind, the government is there to serve you and if it starts to appear condescending toward its people then that government has to back off and if it doesn't, it must be replaced. So that's my take on what's going on.

So, as a vegan, should I support these truckers? I do want liberty for all, including animals, and so why not support the unvaccinated truckers given that I oppose the animal tested vaccine in the first place? I am certainly not too fond of the current government as it betrayed it's people in getting elected with a promise of proportional representation that they never intended to keep. But I am not naive. Truckers aren't selfless vegans who want freedom for others (even as they may claim that, like fake vegans who get vaccinated with an animal tested vaccine and claim to be for animal freedom-I know about that) they want freedom for themselves, a bit like a childish tamper tantrum.

And I feel I can't support that either. What are my options here? Going to a trucker protest with a sign, "Become vegans and then you will get my full support"?

I am also afraid of all the hatred that the government allows to simmer towards the truckers. That seems to be the strategy the government is using to get the general population on their sides, yet, the government must also be careful that the economy does not suffers too much as they could be blamed for allowing this to happen. Maybe I should go to the trucker protest with a sign saying, "I do support the temper tantrum of truckers, feedom matters"?

But ultimately, I don't see a resolution to this. I fear the rise of the temper tantrum could escalate dangerously, and taking sides in a battle where I feel I have little to gain either way may not be something good for me. For now, I am happy that plants across the border are being shut down as it helps reduce CO2 production, but it's clear to me that those who shut things down care little about not increasing CO2 levels in the atmosphere. Yep, my sign at the protest should be, "Hey truckers, why don't you ask them for oil pipe shut down while you are at it?" Humor may be the best way to go here, right?
Would it matter to you if some of the trucks were transporting hogs to the slaughterhouse?
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

We are still experiencing a global pandemic. The vaccines we have developed offer significant protection, and the harm they do is much less than the protection offered. The point about veganism is unfortunate, I admit, assuming your information is correct, and the vaccine was tested on animals (I haven't checked). But this virus has already killed millions of people; we would be stupid not to try to prevent it if we can, and we apparently can. It is difficult to make a case that condemns mandatory vaccination, despite the coercion this involves. Survival trumps morality???
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

AgentSmith wrote: February 14th, 2022, 2:39 am What's so problematic about getting the rexommended 3 jabs for Covid?

1. At worst, it's 3 days (24 hours/shot).
2. It's relatively cheap.
3. It's good for business (vaccine passports).
4. It prevents illness & death.

Is freedom/democracy at stake?

The OP mentions seatbelts. How different are mandatory seatbelts and helmets from compulsory vaccination?
If you aren't vegan, there is no problem that I can think of against it other than the desire to assert one's freedom as the truckers are doing. As a Canadian, the desire to assert one's freedom is constitutional and so it's a fair point.

I do think the issue of freedom is very valid, independently of my opposition from my vegan perspective. Forcing medication into someone's body under the theat of having that person lose his/her life supporting job does some inroads against your freedom, especially the freedom to keep your medical history private.

Mandatory seat belts and helmets are different because they apply to road safety. The roads are regulated, not you. To use the roads, they look at what can be associated with the roads to make them safer. Helmets and seatbelts are part of that. When you leave the road, you are free not to be associated anymore with seatbelts and helmets by taking them off. The fact that you can't remove your vaccine shows that this measure regulates you and not some activity that you engage in. As a vegan with knowledge of how regulated farm animals are, I could say more on this topic but will keep it at this so as to have further strong arguments to make in case someone wants to further argue this point.

What's so problematic?

1) We know that vaccines will kill (cause death to) a tiny fraction of those who get it. So, let's just go ahead without thinking and get the jab because those offering it to us have made all the calculations for us and so we know it is the best choice for us, right? The problem here is that some smart people aren't very trusting of their government. Can you believe that?

Here you are asking questions and I commend you for that. Seek and you shall find why many well educated people like me reject the vaccine. But as you do this, be careful. There is potentially a fight brewing over this. Families and nations are divided over this so you may want to make up your mind by involving your own intelligence as you do this to acknowledge the importance of the issue. Or you can just trust animal abusing doctors and the anti vegan government for your opinion on this matter. Do this while you are still free to make the choice.

My fear is that people who force a great many others to die to support their lifestyle (non-vegans) do not care about freedom, instead they care about their own dominance and this is why many may doubt your sincerity when you wonder out loud if freedom/democracy is at stake. Like, has that ever been a thing you worried about, really?
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

LuckyR wrote: February 14th, 2022, 3:48 am
Empiricist-Bruno wrote: February 13th, 2022, 10:40 am As a vegan, I do oppose both the vaccine (because the product is animal tested) and the privilege given to those who become vaccinated. From the start, I, a vegan, felt quite isolated facing this government attack on what I felt was the vegan breed. But then as most of my vegan friends got their vaccines, I realized that there was no such thing as the vegan breed because most of them don't follow principles but rather self-interest. So, the vegans whom I would have expected to be the most staunch opponents of the government's policy simply abandoned ship and seemed happy to do so as it is safer for them rather than assuming the deadly risk of going through a pandemic unvaccinated, period.

And then true opposition started to emerge from the truckers who were told to get there vaccine or else no more border crossing for them. Unlike vegans, they do not appear to have core values that would push them to protest the way they are doing. They say they feel they should be free. Regulations as to how you should proceed to live your free life are fine with truckers as they agree to have a permit to drive and follow the rules of the road that they share. But is vaccination a new rule of the road? How is protecting the personal health of truck drivers through vaccination going to improve trucking? I mean seatbelts are tied to the means of transportation, the truck, and so the seatbelts belong to trucking and thus can be mandated but unless you can vaccinate a truck, vaccination isn't about trucking, and imposing vaccination on some group does set up a questionable precedent. So, the protest is not so much about freedom as they are about disputing the authority of those telling you that you need to have a vaccine, or else...

When you think about it, what kind of a government would think they have the authority to force some groups to get a vaccine? The answer that comes to mind is a condescending government. In perhaps most people's mind, the government is there to serve you and if it starts to appear condescending toward its people then that government has to back off and if it doesn't, it must be replaced. So that's my take on what's going on.

So, as a vegan, should I support these truckers? I do want liberty for all, including animals, and so why not support the unvaccinated truckers given that I oppose the animal tested vaccine in the first place? I am certainly not too fond of the current government as it betrayed it's people in getting elected with a promise of proportional representation that they never intended to keep. But I am not naive. Truckers aren't selfless vegans who want freedom for others (even as they may claim that, like fake vegans who get vaccinated with an animal tested vaccine and claim to be for animal freedom-I know about that) they want freedom for themselves, a bit like a childish tamper tantrum.

And I feel I can't support that either. What are my options here? Going to a trucker protest with a sign, "Become vegans and then you will get my full support"?

I am also afraid of all the hatred that the government allows to simmer towards the truckers. That seems to be the strategy the government is using to get the general population on their sides, yet, the government must also be careful that the economy does not suffers too much as they could be blamed for allowing this to happen. Maybe I should go to the trucker protest with a sign saying, "I do support the temper tantrum of truckers, feedom matters"?

But ultimately, I don't see a resolution to this. I fear the rise of the temper tantrum could escalate dangerously, and taking sides in a battle where I feel I have little to gain either way may not be something good for me. For now, I am happy that plants across the border are being shut down as it helps reduce CO2 production, but it's clear to me that those who shut things down care little about not increasing CO2 levels in the atmosphere. Yep, my sign at the protest should be, "Hey truckers, why don't you ask them for oil pipe shut down while you are at it?" Humor may be the best way to go here, right?
Would it matter to you if some of the trucks were transporting hogs to the slaughterhouse?
If some of the trucks were transporting hogs to the slaughterhouse, they wouldn't be able to take part in the truckers' protests.

It should be noted, as many do not know this, that truck drivers carrying hogs need to be licensed farmers. They aren't just truckers.

I do at times (once a year perhaps) need to provide services to slaughterhouses as part of my job and as a vegan I don't like helping them but the society I live in isn't vegan and there are limits as to how I can get involved in changing things for the better.
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by Ecurb »

It seems to me that vegans who get vaccinated have a reasonable moral position. If you eat meat you are directly responsible for the death of the animal you are eating. However, animal testing will continue at exactly the same rate whether you get vaccinated or not. So by getting vaccinated, you are not contributing to animal suffering or death.

I also think it's reasonable to avoid products tested on animals, but it's more a matter of making a public statement than of actually promoting animal welfare.
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

Pattern-chaser wrote: February 14th, 2022, 7:03 am We are still experiencing a global pandemic. The vaccines we have developed offer significant protection, and the harm they do is much less than the protection offered. The point about veganism is unfortunate, I admit, assuming your information is correct, and the vaccine was tested on animals (I haven't checked). But this virus has already killed millions of people; we would be stupid not to try to prevent it if we can, and we apparently can. It is difficult to make a case that condemns mandatory vaccination, despite the coercion this involves. Survival trumps morality???
So, you say, the vaccine "we" have developed, and then you admit not knowing for sure if animal testing was a part of that. Hum. If those who have developed the vaccine don't know how they got around to producing it, it certainly does not make me very confident about the product, ha ha.

You know what else is killing millions of people? Traffic, cancer, hearth disease. And yes, we prove to be stupid in allowing the flow of products causing these diseases/deaths into our societies in the name of freedom. To me, it seems like society needs to better educate young people about freedom and it's cost and how they might be able to handle it better, but no. Our teachers aren't free, and so they won't/can't teach what young people need to learn about. This is very much the scandal of our times.

We need to be free. We need to have good, free teachers teaching in our classes and we need a free society to be able to obtain this. Now who is standing in my way? Who wants to tell me mandatory (forced-they go house to house with the vaccine and anyone running away gets shot by the accompanying police) vaccination is not an evil worth fighting against? If you support forcing people to do things you feel they should do maybe you live under a dictatorship? That might explains your position.

The point that the vaccines protect you more than they endanger you has been and is being repeated everyday in the news media and they present this as a fact that is being verified with each passing day as data is being published. So, it is due to this hammering of the argument that it becomes true and not because there is much intelligence or reasoning going along with it. I wouldn't get air time though to make my own objections known, as the defenders of the non-vegan society wouldn't let that happen. If you want to hear sound arguments against vaccines by intelligent people, you got to come to this marginal website.

To me, the argument that survival trumps morality seems to suggest that when you are afraid, you lose control, and that is just the way things naturally occur. If that were my opinion, I would work around the clock and dedicate my self to improving the amount of self control that I possess. Nothing would scare me most then the thought of my own actions being driven by raw fears instilled in me by others or by some situations. A lifetime of experience has taught me this is the way to go. I do not believe I would knowingly stab a friend to survive, because I know my own limits and know that I cannot engage in activities that my soul rejects as being part of my own behavior. I am fortunate to know my own soul a bit and I sure hope before my maker that I ain't wrong about what I believe to know in this regard.
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: February 14th, 2022, 7:20 pm Who wants to tell me mandatory (forced-they go house to house with the vaccine and anyone running away gets shot by the accompanying police) vaccination is not an evil worth fighting against? If you support forcing people to do things you feel they should do maybe you live under a dictatorship? That might explains your position.
No, my position is that 'no man is an island'. No-one is solely an individual. We are all individuals who are also part of many human social groups. Sometimes, some of these groups require certain behaviour of their members. Sometimes, that is even for the good of all. But this coercion, if you want to call it that, is part of what groups do. They do other things too, of course.
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

Ecurb wrote: February 14th, 2022, 7:13 pm It seems to me that vegans who get vaccinated have a reasonable moral position. If you eat meat you are directly responsible for the death of the animal you are eating. However, animal testing will continue at exactly the same rate whether you get vaccinated or not. So by getting vaccinated, you are not contributing to animal suffering or death.

I also think it's reasonable to avoid products tested on animals, but it's more a matter of making a public statement than of actually promoting animal welfare.
It seems to you that people who oppose mandatory animal testing by big pharmaceutical companies are on sound moral ground as they roll up their sleeves to get injected with the animal tested products developed by big pharma? Hum, I don't know what to say. It just seems to me that I don't have your sense of what is right/wrong. To me, that's hypocrisy.

Your comment is helping me to formulate what it is that I find so troubling and puzzling about some other vegans. When I read the argument that you present, I think to myself, this person seems concerned about not getting caught eating meat or causing an animal's death. The focus of such person --who appears to want to avoid being judged out of the vegan group--- is not a vegan focus in my opinion. It's also appears to be an uneducated opinion, as any food you eat is likely to have caused some animal death. The purpose of veganism would be to try and minimize this suffering. Why doing is so? Because you want for yourself a reputation as a caring person, and you don't want that out of personal selfishness but because you have a vision of the world where kindness rules and you think your behavior may help lead the way to turn your vision into reality. But if you keep tuning in to that kind of inspired vision, you will find yourself entering into conflict with others who do not share your vision.

An essential part of veganism is that animals are not to be viewed as stooges, subjects of experimentation and instead that they must be viewed as part of an extended family to us and worthy of respect as such. If you are a vegan and this really isn't part of what you are in it for, then I would suspect you aren't a sound vegan.

Now, from experience, I know that some vegans are in it because they intellectually realize it is the better way to go for many reason and so they think it's the superior choice and since they want to be associated with superior types, they become racist vegans and so veganism becomes like an elite group to them and they want to dominate that group because the thought of being the elite of the elite turns them on. To these kind of people following the rules will matter and finding a rational to allow the use by vegans of a non- allowable product is not going to be hard because supremacy must come with a superior body, one that has all the antibodies necessary for survival, including nthose that have been triggered by an animal tested vaccine. There is also the fear here, that "their" movement could make the wrong decision (the obvious choice consistent with one's animal friendly views) and reject the vaccine and by the same token, reject the supremacists who believe they are a necessary part of veganism, (unlike the idea of being true to your vision).

So, I am happy about this pandemic because it taught me about who the supremacists are in there. It's glaring at me now. I really feel that such supremacist vegans are actual vegan trolls, and I won't let myself be trolled anymore, and I will let the world know to wary of them and that they do indeed exist.

So this pandemic really is putting me on the battle path with many whom I used to consider as colleagues. But, you know, as they can fake being my friends, I can fake being their friend, and these evil colleagues of mine may still be useful in getting me to realize my vision but so far, I say, no. Right wingers don't help.

So as the truckers' convoy comes along, I can say that I am for the truckers as they oppose the animal tested vaccine but I am as much with them as I am with vegan supremacists.
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

Pattern-chaser wrote: February 15th, 2022, 10:09 am
Empiricist-Bruno wrote: February 14th, 2022, 7:20 pm Who wants to tell me mandatory (forced-they go house to house with the vaccine and anyone running away gets shot by the accompanying police) vaccination is not an evil worth fighting against? If you support forcing people to do things you feel they should do maybe you live under a dictatorship? That might explains your position.
No, my position is that 'no man is an island'. No-one is solely an individual. We are all individuals who are also part of many human social groups. Sometimes, some of these groups require certain behaviour of their members. Sometimes, that is even for the good of all. But this coercion, if you want to call it that, is part of what groups do. They do other things too, of course.
Your position is that "No man is an island'. How about women, then? And "No one is solely an individual" , but where do animals fit in this paradigm? Are they also more than individuals, too? Do they (or some of them ) make coercive group decisions too?

Given all the animals killed in the making of the Covid vaccine, it certainly wasn't made for the good of all, and I think you can agree to that.
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Re: Should I support the Canadian truckers' protests?

Post by Ecurb »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: February 16th, 2022, 2:53 pm
It seems to you that people who oppose mandatory animal testing by big pharmaceutical companies are on sound moral ground as they roll up their sleeves to get injected with the animal tested products developed by big pharma? Hum, I don't know what to say. It just seems to me that I don't have your sense of what is right/wrong. To me, that's hypocrisy.

Your comment is helping me to formulate what it is that I find so troubling and puzzling about some other vegans. When I read the argument that you present, I think to myself, this person seems concerned about not getting caught eating meat or causing an animal's death. The focus of such person --who appears to want to avoid being judged out of the vegan group--- is not a vegan focus in my opinion. It's also appears to be an uneducated opinion, as any food you eat is likely to have caused some animal death. The purpose of veganism would be to try and minimize this suffering. Why doing is so? Because you want for yourself a reputation as a caring person, and you don't want that out of personal selfishness but because you have a vision of the world where kindness rules and you think your behavior may help lead the way to turn your vision into reality. But if you keep tuning in to that kind of inspired vision, you will find yourself entering into conflict with others who do not share your vision.

An essential part of veganism is that animals are not to be viewed as stooges, subjects of experimentation and instead that they must be viewed as part of an extended family to us and worthy of respect as such. If you are a vegan and this really isn't part of what you are in it for, then I would suspect you aren't a sound vegan.

Now, from experience, I know that some vegans are in it because they intellectually realize it is the better way to go for many reason and so they think it's the superior choice and since they want to be associated with superior types, they become racist vegans and so veganism becomes like an elite group to them and they want to dominate that group because the thought of being the elite of the elite turns them on. To these kind of people following the rules will matter and finding a rational to allow the use by vegans of a non- allowable product is not going to be hard because supremacy must come with a superior body, one that has all the antibodies necessary for survival, including nthose that have been triggered by an animal tested vaccine. There is also the fear here, that "their" movement could make the wrong decision (the obvious choice consistent with one's animal friendly views) and reject the vaccine and by the same token, reject the supremacists who believe they are a necessary part of veganism, (unlike the idea of being true to your vision).

So, I am happy about this pandemic because it taught me about who the supremacists are in there. It's glaring at me now. I really feel that such supremacist vegans are actual vegan trolls, and I won't let myself be trolled anymore, and I will let the world know to wary of them and that they do indeed exist.

So this pandemic really is putting me on the battle path with many whom I used to consider as colleagues. But, you know, as they can fake being my friends, I can fake being their friend, and these evil colleagues of mine may still be useful in getting me to realize my vision but so far, I say, no. Right wingers don't help.

So as the truckers' convoy comes along, I can say that I am for the truckers as they oppose the animal tested vaccine but I am as much with them as I am with vegan supremacists.
Since I'm not a vegan, I have not (perhaps) thought about the issues as much as you have. Indeed, veganism seems to me a luxury; our hunter/gatherer ancestores never indulged in it. Neither do other predatory or omnivorous species. Are lions more morally culpable than wildebeasts? If neither is morally responsible, isn't it reasonable to differentiate between morally responsible creatures and others?

If your goal is to "minimize this suffering", it is possible (even likely) that some animal testing will help accomplish that goal. Does saving 50 humans justify testing on one rat? I don't know the answer, and neither do you. In any event, I don't think "minimizing suffering" can be the reasonable goal of objecting to animal testing. Instead, a reasonable justification of your position would be to dissociate yourself from causing suffering.

IN general, most people consider human suffering to be worse than animal suffering. Why? First, we're humans, as are those we love. We look after our own. ON the same principle, we may object to killing mammals moe than we object to killing mosquitoes. Second, because humans have a greater ability to understand the future, they experience not only pain, but the fear of pain. That makes their (our) suffering worse.
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2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

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The Unfakeable Code®

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The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

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First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

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Predictably Irrational

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Artwords

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2X2 on the Ark

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by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
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