War to become obsolete in an internet connected world?

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War to become obsolete in an internet connected world?

Post by psyreporter »

I read the following comment on an article about the ethics of warfare on PhilosophyTalk.org:

"A fully mechanized war? The prospect is certainly chilling, especially as adversaries develop the same technology. But maybe this is a reason to question the future of war rather than the current conduct of it. For reasons that have nothing to do with the technology of warfare, war is becoming obsolete. Not only are we too interdependent, but, because of communications, not war, technology we simply know each other too well. It’s like the farm animal that has been given a name, you cannot then kill it for food. This is not a technological advancement, it’s a human one."

Another quote:

"The strongest force is the force that walks the other Way.
To peace,
"

https://www.philosophytalk.org/blog/eth ... ne-warfare

Question:

What is your opinion about war? Do you agree with the quote that war will become obsolete?

--

Just some thoughts from my perspective:

Alternatives for war?

Being prepared for anything is important when it concerns security as a flaw cannot be permitted. From that perspective, high priority advancement in war technologies may be important.

With modern technologies such as vritual reality (VR), preparedness may also be possible with scenario planning, games, simulation and imagination. When earth works together on the subject ‘security’ (earth-space security), advancement may go much faster while the weapons would not be used on people.

Project Evergreen and Long View of the U.S. Coast Guard provide an example.

Learning from the future
Humans tend to conceive of time as linear and unidirectional, as moving from past to present to future, with each time frame discrete. We remember yesterday; we experience today; we anticipate tomorrow. But the best scenario planning embraces a decidedly nonlinear conception of time.
Source: HBR (2020-07) | USCG.MIL

Putting ‘imagination to use’ on behalf of security in the face of an unknown future may enable the human to achieve non linearity with regard how it ‘plans’ itself through time. The primary quality that it would provide is resilience, which can be perceived as strength in the face of an unknown future.

Scenario planning can create a shared purpose in which diversity of perspectives is of high value, and thus it could create a sort of ‘all hands on deck’ situation that can upscale almost indefinitely, with value for humanity’s long term prosperity as a result.

With scenario planning, humane factors will logically become primary drivers which may provide advantages in strategies for diverse scenario’s and therewith improve humanity’s chance of survival. By tapping the perspective of a diverse range of people around the world, imagination potential on behalf of humanity can become stronger, which creates a shared purpose by which war becomes obsolete.

Conclusion

What lays beyond security? Humanity’s prosperity has many facets. Some may concern interests that span thousands of years. Purposeful and meaningful work is what many people want to dedicate their life to, and as such, it seems that scenario planning can contribute great value for humanity. It can put billions of people to work almost indefinitely, with ever increasing value for humanity’s future.

References

(2020) The politics of logic – Philosophy at war: nationalism and logical analysis
‘The truth, whatever it may be, is the same in England, France, and Germany … it is in its essence neutral’
https://aeon.co/essays/philosophy-at-wa ... l-analysis

Philosopher Henry David Thoreau about culturally enforced moral improvement for humanity:

Whatever my own practice may be, I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other when they came in contact with the more civilized.
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Re: War to become obsolete in an internet connected world?

Post by psyreporter »

I once read an article on Scientific American in which scientists argued that many terrorists are driven by factors such as the necessity to fight for water, and that instead of war, an alternative option could be to provide solutions to countries, to create friendships.

The potential validity of this idea is visible in recent articles on water crisis:

(2020) Water Crisis, A Bigger Threat Than Terrorism
https://dailytimes.com.pk/666539/water- ... terrorism/

(2019) Water Wars: How Scarcity Exacerbates Conflict
“Providing these needs will have a great effect on people, and will make them sympathize with us and feel that their fate is tied to ours.”
https://theowp.org/water-wars-how-scarc ... -conflict/

This may indicate that there are alternatives to warfare in some cases.

Iran for example is facing an extreme water crisis and scientists predict that the situation could escalate.

Iran's groundwater depletion is reaching crisis levels, warn researchers
The researchers write that mismanagement by the country's authorities is exacerbating existing strains on the semi-arid country's aquifers by an inefficient agriculture industry. Without urgent action, they note, the country faces multiple national crises.
https://phys.org/news/2021-05-iran-grou ... risis.html

I once hiked with someone who hiked in Iran and he mentioned that the people in Iran are exceptionally friendly and welcoming.

Iranian People: Are They Really As Nice As Travellers Say?
https://www.goatsontheroad.com/iranian- ... eople-say/

iran.jpeg
Iran is one of the most beautiful countries globally with 140 unique wetlands with an area of more than 3 million hectares. Out of 42 types of wetlands known in the world, Iran has 41 types. Still, this microclimate and spectacular natural range is being damaged due to recklessness and is the victim of [the regime’s] economic interests,”."

Iran's water problem appears to be caused in part by foreign politics.

Iran’s ability to deal with the water crisis is linked to its foreign policy challenges. The country’s deteriorating water crisis is not just the result of persistent droughts in recent years,”.

(2021) Water wars on the horizon in Iran
https://asiatimes.com/2021/05/water-war ... n-in-iran/

Extreme water scarcity and wide disparities in public water supplies are potent ingredients for conflict. Jordan's water situation—long deemed a crisis—is now on the brink of "boiling over" into instability, said lead study author Jim Yoon, a water security and resilience scientist at Pacific Northwest National Laboratory.
https://phys.org/news/2021-03-reveals-d ... ordan.html

There are new technologies that can extract water from air without energy-costs and some of them are usable in the desert.

(2021) This Dual-Use Tech Extracts Water from Air
https://i-hls.com/archives/108886

(2021) New material could harvest water all day long
https://phys.org/news/2021-05-material-harvest-day.html

(2018) Drinking water sucked from the dusty desert air
https://phys.org/news/2018-11-dusty-air.html

(2022) New Gel Creates Water From Desert Air
https://www.goodnet.org/articles/new-ge ... desert-air

Wise investments may help to prevent escalation of conflicts and create friendships.
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Re: War to become obsolete in an internet connected world?

Post by EricPH »

psyreporter wrote: June 25th, 2022, 2:44 pm What is your opinion about war? Do you agree with the quote that war will it become obsolete?
No.

Too much injustice has happened. What will victims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Ukraine and others demand? By picking a random number, suppose there are fifty million people who have suffered injustice today. How will these people get justice? Maybe they are refugees and have lost all their possessions, or victims of rape, violence, family members have been killed. Maybe they are the victims of poverty, starvation and exploitation.

There can never be peace with so much injustice.
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Re: War to become obsolete in an internet connected world?

Post by AverageBozo »

psyreporter wrote: June 25th, 2022, 2:44 pm What is your opinion about war? Do you agree with the quote that war will it become obsolete?
No. As long as there are power struggles, negotiations between opponents will be meaningless without the possibility of war.
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Re: War to become obsolete in an internet connected world?

Post by snt »

I perceive war and violence to be a weakness for which there is no place in a reasonable world. Internet and connectivity between people is like a light that can enhance the capacity for reasonableness and when the potential for reasonableness is evident, war and violence become impossible by cultural evolution on behalf of human dignity and intellectual progress (a higher good).

To substantiate my reasoning:

Several philosophers hold the view that humans are naturally inclined to a state of war. For example, philosopher William James mentioned the following in his work on pacifism (‘Remarks at the Peace Banquet’ and ‘The Moral Equivalent of War’):

"The plain truth is that people want war. They want it anyhow; for itself; and apart from each and every possible consequence. It is the final bouquet of life’s fireworks. The born soldiers want it hot and actual. The non-combatants want it in the background, and always as an open possibility, to feed imagination on and keep excitement going."

Why would otherwise be possible, as can be seen in the moral theory developed by many of the philosophers who held a view such as that of William James, one of the founders of pacifism (anti-war philosophy)? Why would one intend to ‘strive against nature’ and formulate a moral theory to prevent war?

War is not a natural state for which one is ought to settle as if it is a natural tendency or inclination. It is a lack of reason that makes one incline to such a state of violence. This explains why philosophers have attempted to formulate a moral theory to prevent war. It is a formulation on behalf of reason.

The OP quotes philosopher Henry David Thoreau regarding culturally enforced moral improvement for humanity:

Whatever my own practice may be, I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other when they came in contact with the more civilized.

He was right. Millennials (Gen Y) have been driving a global shift away from eating animals to serve moral considerations and Gen Z is accelerating a shift to veganism.

(2018) Millennials Are Driving The Worldwide Shift Away From Meat
A global reduction in meat consumption between 2016 and 2050 could save up to eight million lives per year and $31 trillion in reduced costs from health care and climate change. (National Academy of Sciences).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpel ... from-meat/

It is a sign of higher intelligence when the human shows potential for moral consideration (an intellectual capacity). As such, it can be demanded on behalf of human dignity. A lack of moral consideration can become unjust when the potential for it (in an individual) can be made evident.

Animal ethics evolves on the basis of advancements in intelligence and moral consideration. It can be an argument that humans should choose wisely when they have the capacity to do so. A greater capacity in intelligence and moral consideration for animals comes with new responsibilities, and as such, the human being naturally evolves culturally into a state of less violence towards, and improved care for the well-being of animals.

A lack of potential for moral consideration (reason) is the origin of the supposed natural inclination to a ‘state of war’, and ethically, there can be no justification for acts that originate from a lack of reason. One can hide behind error, but error should not be the intended result.

A global moral culture?

The trend in leadership today is a focus on authenticity and a moral compass. The number one business book of recent years, by an author that is considered the new father of leadership, is named 'True North' and is about a moral compass.

I recently listened to a podcast with as guest Lisa Monaco, a former Counterterrorism Advisor of President Barack Obama. She specifically addresses the significance of a sound moral compass and hints that it might involve more than social and cultural instincts (in the podcast she mentioned a 'sixth sense').

Podcast: https://listennotes.com/podcasts/the-le ... li-5dvNUT/

It is interesting to notice that people who manage other people often seem to hold a special interest in morality. When one is to make choices on behalf of other people as part of an organization, morality is essentially what will determine quality in the choices that are made. So the current cultural evolution in business to 'good' companies and a moral culture is something with a long history.

From this perspective, despite that the modern technological society intends to break free from morality (i.e. the idea "A God is dead world in which science tells us our moral intuitions are simply a happenstance of evolutionary utility" that Gertie mentioned recently), there seems to be a solid ground and opportunity for morality to revive in the near future.

Morality can be seen as a form of long term intelligence, an inside-out light into the world, a light 'for good'. Morality would therefore be vital for 'ought' intellectual progress. A 'higher good'.

The cutting edge business science discovery of the critical significance of a moral culture to achieve success with companies that intend to do 'good', by the concept of moral intellectual resilience, provides further evidence for the importance of morality for intellectual progress.

"Deep purpose organizations are deeply committed to both positive commercial and positive social outcomes. Their leaders adopt a mindset of practical idealism. Deep purpose companies thoroughly embed their purpose in their strategy, processes, communications, human resources practices, operational decision-making, and culture."
https://hbr.org/2022/03/the-messy-but-e ... of-purpose

"Good strategy has traditionally been seen as the key to business success. More recently, purpose has become an essential element of doing business. But something else is missing: culture, or the essential elements of how an organization and its employees behave, as well as its governing beliefs and principles.

What teams need is a guiding frame to be effective and energized when the unexpected invariably happens. In a recent conversation I had with business leaders struggling with the challenging state of the environment, we concluded that being guided by our purpose and some key principles — a way to describe culture — and then doing our best was going to work better than hoping we had a clairvoyant strategy we could predictably execute.
"
https://hbr.org/2022/06/does-your-compa ... nd-purpose

"The current fixation on moral purpose puts pressure on executives to be seen as running a “good” business. Defining your purpose (morality) as embedded in culture—as operating in a thoughtful, disciplined, ethical manner—can be both pragmatic and genuine. The full potential of purpose is achieved only when it’s aligned with a company’s value proposition and creates shared aspirations both internally and externally."
https://hbr.org/2022/03/what-is-the-pur ... ur-purpose

The examples are all from 2022.

When a moral culture is set in motion, like a domino effect, it will prevent evil and war fundamentally.

To quote philosopher Bertrand Russell:

"Russell’s antiwar protest was so extensive that it would cost him both his job and, for a time, his personal freedom. His theoretical antidote to the irrational, sectarian vitriol between European nations was to try to show how logic could function as an international language that could be used impartially and dispassionately to adjudicate disputes. His theoretical antidote was, in other words, analytic philosophy.

The truth (the 'good'), whatever it may be, is the same in England, France, Germany and China … it is in its essence neutral’
"
https://aeon.co/essays/philosophy-at-wa ... l-analysis

I therefore agree with the quoted philosopher in the OP that war should become obsolete when people become connected through the internet and acquire the potential of reasonableness and its corresponding responsibility for the higher good.
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Re: War to become obsolete in an internet connected world?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

psyreporter wrote: June 25th, 2022, 2:44 pm What is your opinion about war? Do you agree with the quote that war will become obsolete?
Obsolete? No, I don't think so. But will war be fought in different ways? Yes, I think it will; I think it already is, compared with past wars. But war itself remains. I suspect war will be with us, in some form, until we (humans) are all gone forever.
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Re: War to become obsolete in an internet connected world?

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snt wrote: June 26th, 2022, 4:07 am I perceive war and violence to be a weakness for which there is no place in a reasonable world.
This is an 'ought', an aspiration or a wish. Do you have any suggestions as to how your 'ought' might be turned into an 'is'?

Do you intend to turn our existing world into a "reasonable" world, for example?
Or do you propose that humans should be changed to avoid our "weakness" for war and violence?
How?
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Re: War to become obsolete in an internet connected world?

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EricPH wrote: June 25th, 2022, 4:51 pm
psyreporter wrote: June 25th, 2022, 2:44 pm What is your opinion about war? Do you agree with the quote that war will it become obsolete?
No.

Too much injustice has happened. What will victims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Ukraine and others demand? By picking a random number, suppose there are fifty million people who have suffered injustice today. How will these people get justice? Maybe they are refugees and have lost all their possessions, or victims of rape, violence, family members have been killed. Maybe they are the victims of poverty, starvation and exploitation.

There can never be peace with so much injustice.
I lost almost everything due to - still ongoing - injustice. I endured physical harm. My businesses were destroyed. Police, a legal council and Justice attempted intimidate me and to destroy my safety. And after all the injustice that was done, it was followed by an underhand death threat. My landlord destroyed all contents of my home (at least 30,000 Euro damage), I lost my home so that I became homeless and had to stay in a costly hotel - causing me to lose time and money. On top of that, my health was damaged and I was seriously ill for at least two weeks and my sport performance had decreased significantly.

To rub in the injustice that was done: it was ignored. It was acted upon as if nothing happened so that it causes a snake in grass situation that continues to cause damage to safety until this day.

The situation was investigated by myself and the result is stable, evident by the fact that the evil doers have nothing to say.

An introduction for my story is available on https://gmodebate.org/critics/

The origin of all the fuzz and evil has been my critical perspective on GMO, which origin is a philosophical addressing of Nazi ideology and eugenics. While I am absolutely not ideological or politically motivated (I intend to be neutral), it appears that I have had a sort of frontrunner position with regard a critical stance on Nazi ideology and eugenics causing me to catch wind from certain dubious figures, and which includes most atheists as natural sympathisers with the philosophical fundament of beliefs that underlay eugenics, so I have perceived them to be a major force as well. (again: I am not religious, thus it is not about ideology).

I am personally not a revenge type of person, as I've communicated before on this forum early on during the investigation. I can understand that people seek revenge but such a desire in my opinion can only come from darkness and unreason.

I understand that you may find my story to be a weak example compared with the evil and harm that the cited fifty million victims have experienced.

How about the story of French philosopher Emmanuel Levinas - an icon of Western philosophy - whos family was murdered by the Nazis and who continued to create a profound moral philosophy that is studied by dedicated academics today?

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/levinas/

Emmanuel Levinas was born in Lithuania, shortly fled to Ukraine during the war and then moved to France where he ultimately became a philosophy professor at the University of Paris.

You might find his story inspiring. He endured the most profound injustice. His great example figure and hero philosopher Martin Heidegger joined the Nazi party. Yet, Levinas has found a way to choose an ethical life and to continue his work. He did not seek revenge.

Philosopher Seth Paskin, one of the hosts of the podcast Partially Examined Life, is Jewish and studied Heidegger in Freiburg, Germany, and later dedicated to Levinas.

Episode 145: Emmanuel Levinas: Why Be Ethical?
https://partiallyexaminedlife.com/2016/ ... 1-levinas/

The following free ebook by the Dutch professor Adriaan Peperzak (University of Chicago) who is specialized in the history of Levinas, provides a quick insight in the history of Levinas.

To the Other: Introduction to the Philosophy of Emmanuel Levinas
https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/purduepress_ebooks/20/

With reason, it appears to be possible to overcome injustice and when people are connected through the internet, the potential for reason-ableness improves, which involves responsibilities that are culturally enforced so that people can naturally choose an ethical life despite being victim of the most grave injustice.


My experience as author of a critical blog on behalf of victims of injustice

As author of a critical blog on psychiatry I had experience with people who were victim of sometimes the most grave injustice, such as enforced electro shock therapy. I believe that by critically speaking for those people - to show a path of intellect and reason - it could enable those people to keep true to an ethical nature, and (ultimately) to feel better than the evil doers that caused injustice to them.

I believe that the blog may have prevented many people from seeking violent revenge.

By being silent and by letting intellectual criticism proceed, the victims could win more. This shows an example of the potential of reason in my opinion because the people who it involves often did not only experience the most grave injustice imaginable (from their perspective) they sometimes also experienced grave personal problems and instability. Yet, naturally, they could favour reason, was my experience.

Reason and intellect is a higher good than violent revenge.

https://psyreporter.com/psychiatry/

Note: not once did I receive a threat in the decades that I was author of the critical blog. Patients often sent thank you emails and psychiatrists and professors were friendly in communication and never complained about the content of the blog, which had columns of prominent professors and authors. What happened with regard the injustice that was done to me did not seem to naturally follow the authorship of the critical blog, which was also already closed for many years.
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Re: War to become obsolete in an internet connected world?

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Pattern-chaser wrote: June 27th, 2022, 6:28 am
snt wrote: June 26th, 2022, 4:07 am I perceive war and violence to be a weakness for which there is no place in a reasonable world.
This is an 'ought', an aspiration or a wish. Do you have any suggestions as to how your 'ought' might be turned into an 'is'?

Do you intend to turn our existing world into a "reasonable" world, for example?
Or do you propose that humans should be changed to avoid our "weakness" for war and violence?
How?
My opinion: Modern man is to be expected to evolve beyond barbaric practices such as war and revenge if it intends to secure longer term prosperity. Intelligence before practice means overcoming darkness before it was ever present, and thus, to prevent war and revenge in favour of reason.

Emmanuel Levinas his vision of Ethics as First Philosophy is a moral philosophy that seems to be correct to me.

I would agree with the following quote from a philosopher on PhilosophyTalk.org:

"There is no greater example of mental weakness than the idea that military technology and might is the solution to war. It is this very weakness that fuels our wars. Violence begets violence and nothing more."
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Re: War to become obsolete in an internet connected world?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

psyreporter wrote: June 27th, 2022, 7:18 am
Pattern-chaser wrote: June 27th, 2022, 6:28 am
snt wrote: June 26th, 2022, 4:07 am I perceive war and violence to be a weakness for which there is no place in a reasonable world.
This is an 'ought', an aspiration or a wish. Do you have any suggestions as to how your 'ought' might be turned into an 'is'?

Do you intend to turn our existing world into a "reasonable" world, for example?
Or do you propose that humans should be changed to avoid our "weakness" for war and violence?
How?
My opinion: Modern man is to be expected to evolve beyond barbaric practices such as war and revenge if it intends to secure longer term prosperity. Intelligence before practice means overcoming darkness before it was ever present, and thus, to prevent war and revenge in favour of reason.

Emmanuel Levinas his vision of Ethics as First Philosophy is a moral philosophy that seems to be correct to me.

I would agree with the following quote from a philosopher on PhilosophyTalk.org:

"There is no greater example of mental weakness than the idea that military technology and might is the solution to war. It is this very weakness that fuels our wars. Violence begets violence and nothing more."
Your final quote I, too, agree with.

I am less enthusiastic about M. Levinas. His sayings seem to have spawned some strange ideas here, in various topics. In particular, his apparent ideas about things coming before, or preceding, other things. These ideas, or at least his way of expressing them, including this 'precedence', seem to me to offer little but confusion.

Levinas speaks, in your quote, of "overcoming darkness before it was ever present". This is apparently nonsense. Perhaps this might be better expressed as simply avoiding 'darkness'? After all, darkness cannot be overcome before it is present. It can be avoided in advance of its arrival, but not overcome. The latter can happen only after it has 'arrived'.

I am also of the opinion that "intelligence before practice" is an aspiration, an 'ought', and nothing more. And I'm not convinced it is a wise or desirable aspiration. It seems to want to deny our human emotions, to get rid of them, leaving only "intelligence" behind. Yes, we are intelligent creatures, sometimes, but we are other things too. Our humanity is defined by all of what we are, and all the attributes we possess, desirable and undesirable. If we got rid of all that emotional stuff, and left only intelligence and reason, we would be lessened, perhaps to the point where we are no longer human?
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