Trumpism is not logical

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3017Metaphysician
Posts: 1621
Joined: July 9th, 2021, 8:59 am

Trumpism is not logical

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

Greetings philosophers of Politics!

As a Christian Existentialist, I don’t consider ‘this world’ my kingdom. I give to Caesar what is Caesars, appreciate the cultural and political freedoms (Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness) that in-turn our constitution provides for, vote on occasion and try to stay informed. I live by our currency of In God We Trust. But I try to keep it all in perspective and don’t get too spun-up. As such, I was researching something having to do with logical fallacies and ran into this:


Since philosophy lives in the logic of language, and language itself matters, particularly with respect to our expectations in so-called leadership abilities/qualities, I started to think about the differences between likable candidates v. unlikable one’s and what that all means. Then, combining one’s own likes and dislikes with political ideology and expectation levels of elected officials, I felt the need to parse what causes people to like certain candidates.

Generally speaking, this leads to our choices associated with our system of government. We have Democrats, Republicans and Independents. I myself am a moderate independent. That translates to me being free to vote either party, in hopes to either find moderation (moderate candidates both left and right), and to submit protest votes in order to get the lesser of two evils. In this case, I didn’t vote for Trump.

You could consider me an old Reagan moderate (though he spent way too much money), or a modern-day Adam Kinzinger Republican. Or even a modern-day Joe Manchin moderate from the left. I like limited government but also appreciate the many entitlements that have been put into law; it's a balance. My political belief system is centered around (no pun intended) Aristotle’s mantra of moderation bringing happiness to the masses, as well as the commonsense application of ‘compromise’ with some exceptions. For instance, the world around us relies on compromise for many things including those dynamics between interpersonal relationships to engineering design to products/services and manufacturing. An engineer can design an engine that is more efficient but would be cost prohibitive due to its design materials and high compression ratios (requiring over 93 octane) not to mention maintenance costs. Though high-performance vehicles are popular, there is always a moderate compromise between performance efficiency and cost, manufacturing and maintenance. Or we can even look at building products and a whole host of other products to see that they generally incorporate ‘moderation’ in their designs.

This even extends into gun safety and speed limits, as we don't go 200 miles an hour and we don't 35 on the highway. Instead we go somewhere reasonably i the middle. We don't put a top fuel dragster on the road (assault weapons') we allow them to race on the dragstrip. It's about public safety. The far right wants tanks and nuclear codes, the far left wants to take them away. I could go on an provide examples of 'moderate' capitol punishment ideologies but I'll stop there.

With all that said, obviously ‘extremism’ is at the opposite ends of the political equation. Needless to say, I’m against extremism both left and right, and with few exceptions, generally think it’s bad for the country. And unfortunately, the experiment known as ‘Trumpism’ turned into lessons of extremism. Remember too, all Presidents do good and bad. Those that do (worse) more bad than good, generally don’t get re-elected. It’s like firing an employee; they did some good, but the bad outweighed the good. Or a relationship, you break-up or divorce because the bad outweighed the good. Conversely, you stay in it because the good outweighs the bad.

Just so you know, while I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer, when I vote I want to feel comfortable with my decision, of course knowing all the while I’m not going to get everything I want. At the same time, I don’t want to tell people what to believe, but rather I want to understand why I make the decisions that I do. Accordingly, I researched both the ideologies and character of Trump from his private sector days (dad’s involvement with KKK, Trump university failed business venture/law suits, racial discrimination in his rental properties , Casino failures, and then character/leadership abilities in the form of misogyny, infidelity, and other lies and deceit and narcissism/ego from Jan 6th particularly where he allowed armed people to pass through the MAG and was basically derelict in his duties) both before and after his presidency. Then, you have that perpetuation of the big lie that was designed to portray himself not only as a perceived loser, but so he can continue to dupe donors and raise money and live for another day (some donors sued to get their money back). Many Republicans have acted cowardly towards all this by saying one thing in public; in private another. Why? Because they have a good thing going and don’t want to lose their jobs. Simple arithmetic there; but despicable, nonetheless. A sell-out of sorts just to get re-elected. A Republican party of values, and law an order you say?

This is not even mentioning all the other nefarious activity that we know about from his former campaign associates being convicted of lying/crimes ( Manifold/Flynn, etc.) , the impeachment, to the most recent lies/Jan 6 and now the allegations of destroying documents and otherwise allegedly committing a crime in keeping classified documents. Ironically enough, he seems no better than Hillary herself; lock him up (or both) I say! And in real time, this just in! Trump pleads the fifth in New York City… ?

And that leads to the notion of what causes people to support a person who like Teflon Don, is a thug and a cult of personality. Remember, he said that he could shoot someone, and nobody would care, right? Hence the personality type:
Cult of Personality Lyrics:


I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your TV
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
I exploit you, still you love me
I tell you one and one makes three
Oh, I'm the cult of personality

Neon lights, a Nobel Prize
When a mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set me free...

And so all that said, I will argue that not only is this former president not worthy of re-election, but he did not drain the swamp; he is the swamp. He’s a reality TV host who feeds on emotion, rather than logic and substance, He attacks people who have opposing views by acting as though he’s a tough guy and fires them. In actually, more people left him because they saw the writing on the wall; he’s a fake and a fraud and a coward (pleading the fifth today). And many of those observations didn’t come from me, remember the 2016 primaries?

Any takers?
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
User avatar
The Beast
Posts: 1403
Joined: July 7th, 2013, 10:32 pm

Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by The Beast »

US has 92.9 residents per sq mile (2019)
NYC 27000; California 253.64; Texas 105.2; Florida 412
Population of the US.
2020 335942003
2021 336997624
2022 338289857
In 2020 3383729 deaths
In 2021 3.66 million babies
The border with Mexico is 1933 miles long.
Texas spent 25 million in a two-mile-long section.
It costs 32 million to build a 2.5 MGD (27million gal per day) sea water desalination plant. Additional cost to build a dam and electrical generators (hydroelectricity) plus an additional saline treatment plant producing agricultural goods.
658 mil for a 100MGD plant.
There were 222656 arrests at the border in April. Total approx. crossings of 275000.
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7091
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by Sculptor1 »

The Beast wrote: August 10th, 2022, 3:00 pm US has 92.9 residents per sq mile (2019)
NYC 27000; California 253.64; Texas 105.2; Florida 412
Population of the US.
2020 335942003
2021 336997624
2022 338289857
In 2020 3383729 deaths
In 2021 3.66 million babies
The border with Mexico is 1933 miles long.
Texas spent 25 million in a two-mile-long section.
It costs 32 million to build a 2.5 MGD (27million gal per day) sea water desalination plant. Additional cost to build a dam and electrical generators (hydroelectricity) plus an additional saline treatment plant producing agricultural goods.
658 mil for a 100MGD plant.
There were 222656 arrests at the border in April. Total approx. crossings of 275000.
What is your point?
AverageBozo
Posts: 502
Joined: May 11th, 2021, 11:20 am

Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by AverageBozo »

3017Metaphysician wrote: August 10th, 2022, 11:24 am Greetings philosophers of Politics!

As a Christian Existentialist, I don’t consider ‘this world’ my kingdom. I give to Caesar what is Caesars, appreciate the cultural and political freedoms (Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness) that in-turn our constitution provides for, vote on occasion and try to stay informed. I live by our currency of In God We Trust. But I try to keep it all in perspective and don’t get too spun-up. As such, I was researching something having to do with logical fallacies and ran into this:


Since philosophy lives in the logic of language, and language itself matters, particularly with respect to our expectations in so-called leadership abilities/qualities, I started to think about the differences between likable candidates v. unlikable one’s and what that all means. Then, combining one’s own likes and dislikes with political ideology and expectation levels of elected officials, I felt the need to parse what causes people to like certain candidates.

Generally speaking, this leads to our choices associated with our system of government. We have Democrats, Republicans and Independents. I myself am a moderate independent. That translates to me being free to vote either party, in hopes to either find moderation (moderate candidates both left and right), and to submit protest votes in order to get the lesser of two evils. In this case, I didn’t vote for Trump.

You could consider me an old Reagan moderate (though he spent way too much money), or a modern-day Adam Kinzinger Republican. Or even a modern-day Joe Manchin moderate from the left. I like limited government but also appreciate the many entitlements that have been put into law; it's a balance. My political belief system is centered around (no pun intended) Aristotle’s mantra of moderation bringing happiness to the masses, as well as the commonsense application of ‘compromise’ with some exceptions. For instance, the world around us relies on compromise for many things including those dynamics between interpersonal relationships to engineering design to products/services and manufacturing. An engineer can design an engine that is more efficient but would be cost prohibitive due to its design materials and high compression ratios (requiring over 93 octane) not to mention maintenance costs. Though high-performance vehicles are popular, there is always a moderate compromise between performance efficiency and cost, manufacturing and maintenance. Or we can even look at building products and a whole host of other products to see that they generally incorporate ‘moderation’ in their designs.

This even extends into gun safety and speed limits, as we don't go 200 miles an hour and we don't 35 on the highway. Instead we go somewhere reasonably i the middle. We don't put a top fuel dragster on the road (assault weapons') we allow them to race on the dragstrip. It's about public safety. The far right wants tanks and nuclear codes, the far left wants to take them away. I could go on an provide examples of 'moderate' capitol punishment ideologies but I'll stop there.

With all that said, obviously ‘extremism’ is at the opposite ends of the political equation. Needless to say, I’m against extremism both left and right, and with few exceptions, generally think it’s bad for the country. And unfortunately, the experiment known as ‘Trumpism’ turned into lessons of extremism. Remember too, all Presidents do good and bad. Those that do (worse) more bad than good, generally don’t get re-elected. It’s like firing an employee; they did some good, but the bad outweighed the good. Or a relationship, you break-up or divorce because the bad outweighed the good. Conversely, you stay in it because the good outweighs the bad.

Just so you know, while I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer, when I vote I want to feel comfortable with my decision, of course knowing all the while I’m not going to get everything I want. At the same time, I don’t want to tell people what to believe, but rather I want to understand why I make the decisions that I do. Accordingly, I researched both the ideologies and character of Trump from his private sector days (dad’s involvement with KKK, Trump university failed business venture/law suits, racial discrimination in his rental properties , Casino failures, and then character/leadership abilities in the form of misogyny, infidelity, and other lies and deceit and narcissism/ego from Jan 6th particularly where he allowed armed people to pass through the MAG and was basically derelict in his duties) both before and after his presidency. Then, you have that perpetuation of the big lie that was designed to portray himself not only as a perceived loser, but so he can continue to dupe donors and raise money and live for another day (some donors sued to get their money back). Many Republicans have acted cowardly towards all this by saying one thing in public; in private another. Why? Because they have a good thing going and don’t want to lose their jobs. Simple arithmetic there; but despicable, nonetheless. A sell-out of sorts just to get re-elected. A Republican party of values, and law an order you say?

This is not even mentioning all the other nefarious activity that we know about from his former campaign associates being convicted of lying/crimes ( Manifold/Flynn, etc.) , the impeachment, to the most recent lies/Jan 6 and now the allegations of destroying documents and otherwise allegedly committing a crime in keeping classified documents. Ironically enough, he seems no better than Hillary herself; lock him up (or both) I say! And in real time, this just in! Trump pleads the fifth in New York City… ?

And that leads to the notion of what causes people to support a person who like Teflon Don, is a thug and a cult of personality. Remember, he said that he could shoot someone, and nobody would care, right? Hence the personality type:
Cult of Personality Lyrics:


I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your TV
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
I exploit you, still you love me
I tell you one and one makes three
Oh, I'm the cult of personality

Neon lights, a Nobel Prize
When a mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set me free...

And so all that said, I will argue that not only is this former president not worthy of re-election, but he did not drain the swamp; he is the swamp. He’s a reality TV host who feeds on emotion, rather than logic and substance, He attacks people who have opposing views by acting as though he’s a tough guy and fires them. In actually, more people left him because they saw the writing on the wall; he’s a fake and a fraud and a coward (pleading the fifth today). And many of those observations didn’t come from me, remember the 2016 primaries?

Any takers?
Any takers???

For what? You haven’t even addressed the logic of Trumpism. Instead, you only attack the man, and only for his personality. What do you think Trumpism is anyway?
User avatar
The Beast
Posts: 1403
Joined: July 7th, 2013, 10:32 pm

Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by The Beast »

Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 3:24 pm
The Beast wrote: August 10th, 2022, 3:00 pm US has 92.9 residents per sq mile (2019)
NYC 27000; California 253.64; Texas 105.2; Florida 412
Population of the US.
2020 335942003
2021 336997624
2022 338289857
In 2020 3383729 deaths
In 2021 3.66 million babies
The border with Mexico is 1933 miles long.
Texas spent 25 million in a two-mile-long section.
It costs 32 million to build a 2.5 MGD (27million gal per day) sea water desalination plant. Additional cost to build a dam and electrical generators (hydroelectricity) plus an additional saline treatment plant producing agricultural goods.
658 mil for a 100MGD plant.
There were 222656 arrests at the border in April. Total approx. crossings of 275000.
What is your point?
A point of objectivity. Electric cars will need electricity. The environment and a possible global warming will benefit from investments in technology and hydroelectrical plants. Building a big dam requires lots of labor. The increment in the population from 2020 to 2021 were from legal/ illegal immigration. Legal immigration is over 1 million per year. There were no other sources of residents as births and deaths are mostly even. I am not sure of the significance of 275000 illegal entries. This was a major slogan in Trump’s campaign. “We build the wall and Mexico pays for it.” And what’s the big deal anyway? It is politics as usual to sway negative sentiments like blaming the 26.5 deaths per 100000 due to poison (opioids) on illegal immigration… and isn’t anyone looking for good people?
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7935
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by LuckyR »

AverageBozo wrote: August 10th, 2022, 3:45 pm
Any takers???

For what? You haven’t even addressed the logic of Trumpism. Instead, you only attack the man, and only for his personality. What do you think Trumpism is anyway?
Trumpism is what's ultimately financially beneficial to Trump (and as a side effect, these things will likely also be financially beneficial to the 1%). Of course in order to enact Trumpism, he has to get elected and so Trumpism also includes a whole host of various social stances that are red meat to his voters (who generally are financially harmed by the main body of Trumpism). That aspect truly has a certain aspect of humor baked in, when viewed from 35,000 feet.
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
3017Metaphysician
Posts: 1621
Joined: July 9th, 2021, 8:59 am

Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

AverageBozo wrote: August 10th, 2022, 3:45 pm
3017Metaphysician wrote: August 10th, 2022, 11:24 am Greetings philosophers of Politics!

As a Christian Existentialist, I don’t consider ‘this world’ my kingdom. I give to Caesar what is Caesars, appreciate the cultural and political freedoms (Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness) that in-turn our constitution provides for, vote on occasion and try to stay informed. I live by our currency of In God We Trust. But I try to keep it all in perspective and don’t get too spun-up. As such, I was researching something having to do with logical fallacies and ran into this:


Since philosophy lives in the logic of language, and language itself matters, particularly with respect to our expectations in so-called leadership abilities/qualities, I started to think about the differences between likable candidates v. unlikable one’s and what that all means. Then, combining one’s own likes and dislikes with political ideology and expectation levels of elected officials, I felt the need to parse what causes people to like certain candidates.

Generally speaking, this leads to our choices associated with our system of government. We have Democrats, Republicans and Independents. I myself am a moderate independent. That translates to me being free to vote either party, in hopes to either find moderation (moderate candidates both left and right), and to submit protest votes in order to get the lesser of two evils. In this case, I didn’t vote for Trump.

You could consider me an old Reagan moderate (though he spent way too much money), or a modern-day Adam Kinzinger Republican. Or even a modern-day Joe Manchin moderate from the left. I like limited government but also appreciate the many entitlements that have been put into law; it's a balance. My political belief system is centered around (no pun intended) Aristotle’s mantra of moderation bringing happiness to the masses, as well as the commonsense application of ‘compromise’ with some exceptions. For instance, the world around us relies on compromise for many things including those dynamics between interpersonal relationships to engineering design to products/services and manufacturing. An engineer can design an engine that is more efficient but would be cost prohibitive due to its design materials and high compression ratios (requiring over 93 octane) not to mention maintenance costs. Though high-performance vehicles are popular, there is always a moderate compromise between performance efficiency and cost, manufacturing and maintenance. Or we can even look at building products and a whole host of other products to see that they generally incorporate ‘moderation’ in their designs.

This even extends into gun safety and speed limits, as we don't go 200 miles an hour and we don't 35 on the highway. Instead we go somewhere reasonably i the middle. We don't put a top fuel dragster on the road (assault weapons') we allow them to race on the dragstrip. It's about public safety. The far right wants tanks and nuclear codes, the far left wants to take them away. I could go on an provide examples of 'moderate' capitol punishment ideologies but I'll stop there.

With all that said, obviously ‘extremism’ is at the opposite ends of the political equation. Needless to say, I’m against extremism both left and right, and with few exceptions, generally think it’s bad for the country. And unfortunately, the experiment known as ‘Trumpism’ turned into lessons of extremism. Remember too, all Presidents do good and bad. Those that do (worse) more bad than good, generally don’t get re-elected. It’s like firing an employee; they did some good, but the bad outweighed the good. Or a relationship, you break-up or divorce because the bad outweighed the good. Conversely, you stay in it because the good outweighs the bad.

Just so you know, while I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer, when I vote I want to feel comfortable with my decision, of course knowing all the while I’m not going to get everything I want. At the same time, I don’t want to tell people what to believe, but rather I want to understand why I make the decisions that I do. Accordingly, I researched both the ideologies and character of Trump from his private sector days (dad’s involvement with KKK, Trump university failed business venture/law suits, racial discrimination in his rental properties , Casino failures, and then character/leadership abilities in the form of misogyny, infidelity, and other lies and deceit and narcissism/ego from Jan 6th particularly where he allowed armed people to pass through the MAG and was basically derelict in his duties) both before and after his presidency. Then, you have that perpetuation of the big lie that was designed to portray himself not only as a perceived loser, but so he can continue to dupe donors and raise money and live for another day (some donors sued to get their money back). Many Republicans have acted cowardly towards all this by saying one thing in public; in private another. Why? Because they have a good thing going and don’t want to lose their jobs. Simple arithmetic there; but despicable, nonetheless. A sell-out of sorts just to get re-elected. A Republican party of values, and law an order you say?

This is not even mentioning all the other nefarious activity that we know about from his former campaign associates being convicted of lying/crimes ( Manifold/Flynn, etc.) , the impeachment, to the most recent lies/Jan 6 and now the allegations of destroying documents and otherwise allegedly committing a crime in keeping classified documents. Ironically enough, he seems no better than Hillary herself; lock him up (or both) I say! And in real time, this just in! Trump pleads the fifth in New York City… ?

And that leads to the notion of what causes people to support a person who like Teflon Don, is a thug and a cult of personality. Remember, he said that he could shoot someone, and nobody would care, right? Hence the personality type:
Cult of Personality Lyrics:


I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your TV
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
I exploit you, still you love me
I tell you one and one makes three
Oh, I'm the cult of personality

Neon lights, a Nobel Prize
When a mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set me free...

And so all that said, I will argue that not only is this former president not worthy of re-election, but he did not drain the swamp; he is the swamp. He’s a reality TV host who feeds on emotion, rather than logic and substance, He attacks people who have opposing views by acting as though he’s a tough guy and fires them. In actually, more people left him because they saw the writing on the wall; he’s a fake and a fraud and a coward (pleading the fifth today). And many of those observations didn’t come from me, remember the 2016 primaries?

Any takers?
Any takers???

For what? You haven’t even addressed the logic of Trumpism. Instead, you only attack the man, and only for his personality. What do you think Trumpism is anyway?
AverageBozo wrote: August 10th, 2022, 3:45 pm
3017Metaphysician wrote: August 10th, 2022, 11:24 am Greetings philosophers of Politics!

As a Christian Existentialist, I don’t consider ‘this world’ my kingdom. I give to Caesar what is Caesars, appreciate the cultural and political freedoms (Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness) that in-turn our constitution provides for, vote on occasion and try to stay informed. I live by our currency of In God We Trust. But I try to keep it all in perspective and don’t get too spun-up. As such, I was researching something having to do with logical fallacies and ran into this:


Since philosophy lives in the logic of language, and language itself matters, particularly with respect to our expectations in so-called leadership abilities/qualities, I started to think about the differences between likable candidates v. unlikable one’s and what that all means. Then, combining one’s own likes and dislikes with political ideology and expectation levels of elected officials, I felt the need to parse what causes people to like certain candidates.

Generally speaking, this leads to our choices associated with our system of government. We have Democrats, Republicans and Independents. I myself am a moderate independent. That translates to me being free to vote either party, in hopes to either find moderation (moderate candidates both left and right), and to submit protest votes in order to get the lesser of two evils. In this case, I didn’t vote for Trump.

You could consider me an old Reagan moderate (though he spent way too much money), or a modern-day Adam Kinzinger Republican. Or even a modern-day Joe Manchin moderate from the left. I like limited government but also appreciate the many entitlements that have been put into law; it's a balance. My political belief system is centered around (no pun intended) Aristotle’s mantra of moderation bringing happiness to the masses, as well as the commonsense application of ‘compromise’ with some exceptions. For instance, the world around us relies on compromise for many things including those dynamics between interpersonal relationships to engineering design to products/services and manufacturing. An engineer can design an engine that is more efficient but would be cost prohibitive due to its design materials and high compression ratios (requiring over 93 octane) not to mention maintenance costs. Though high-performance vehicles are popular, there is always a moderate compromise between performance efficiency and cost, manufacturing and maintenance. Or we can even look at building products and a whole host of other products to see that they generally incorporate ‘moderation’ in their designs.

This even extends into gun safety and speed limits, as we don't go 200 miles an hour and we don't 35 on the highway. Instead we go somewhere reasonably i the middle. We don't put a top fuel dragster on the road (assault weapons') we allow them to race on the dragstrip. It's about public safety. The far right wants tanks and nuclear codes, the far left wants to take them away. I could go on an provide examples of 'moderate' capitol punishment ideologies but I'll stop there.

With all that said, obviously ‘extremism’ is at the opposite ends of the political equation. Needless to say, I’m against extremism both left and right, and with few exceptions, generally think it’s bad for the country. And unfortunately, the experiment known as ‘Trumpism’ turned into lessons of extremism. Remember too, all Presidents do good and bad. Those that do (worse) more bad than good, generally don’t get re-elected. It’s like firing an employee; they did some good, but the bad outweighed the good. Or a relationship, you break-up or divorce because the bad outweighed the good. Conversely, you stay in it because the good outweighs the bad.

Just so you know, while I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer, when I vote I want to feel comfortable with my decision, of course knowing all the while I’m not going to get everything I want. At the same time, I don’t want to tell people what to believe, but rather I want to understand why I make the decisions that I do. Accordingly, I researched both the ideologies and character of Trump from his private sector days (dad’s involvement with KKK, Trump university failed business venture/law suits, racial discrimination in his rental properties , Casino failures, and then character/leadership abilities in the form of misogyny, infidelity, and other lies and deceit and narcissism/ego from Jan 6th particularly where he allowed armed people to pass through the MAG and was basically derelict in his duties) both before and after his presidency. Then, you have that perpetuation of the big lie that was designed to portray himself not only as a perceived loser, but so he can continue to dupe donors and raise money and live for another day (some donors sued to get their money back). Many Republicans have acted cowardly towards all this by saying one thing in public; in private another. Why? Because they have a good thing going and don’t want to lose their jobs. Simple arithmetic there; but despicable, nonetheless. A sell-out of sorts just to get re-elected. A Republican party of values, and law an order you say?

This is not even mentioning all the other nefarious activity that we know about from his former campaign associates being convicted of lying/crimes ( Manifold/Flynn, etc.) , the impeachment, to the most recent lies/Jan 6 and now the allegations of destroying documents and otherwise allegedly committing a crime in keeping classified documents. Ironically enough, he seems no better than Hillary herself; lock him up (or both) I say! And in real time, this just in! Trump pleads the fifth in New York City… ?

And that leads to the notion of what causes people to support a person who like Teflon Don, is a thug and a cult of personality. Remember, he said that he could shoot someone, and nobody would care, right? Hence the personality type:
Cult of Personality Lyrics:


I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your TV
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
I exploit you, still you love me
I tell you one and one makes three
Oh, I'm the cult of personality

Neon lights, a Nobel Prize
When a mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set me free...

And so all that said, I will argue that not only is this former president not worthy of re-election, but he did not drain the swamp; he is the swamp. He’s a reality TV host who feeds on emotion, rather than logic and substance, He attacks people who have opposing views by acting as though he’s a tough guy and fires them. In actually, more people left him because they saw the writing on the wall; he’s a fake and a fraud and a coward (pleading the fifth today). And many of those observations didn’t come from me, remember the 2016 primaries?

Any takers?
Any takers???

For what? You haven’t even addressed the logic of Trumpism. Instead, you only attack the man, and only for his personality. What do you think Trumpism is anyway?
AB!

Of course, I'm just playing by the (his) rules. But to your question, check out the video. I agree with 90% of it, which serves as justification/premise for discourse. Beyond this, his character issues seem counterintuitive to a conservative party of values, law and order, no? He was a Democrat at one time but now he's just using the GOP for his own personal advantage... In Christianity Today they finally recognized his character issues and are jumping ship... . Teflon Don is taking on water for sure.

With respect to his character, are you an advocate? Do you consider him a derelict in his duties, as president vis a vis Jan 6? Does a leader reply to his adviser's who advised there was no widespread fraud in the election by saying "that's not what social media says" ? Or when he says 'let them come through the magnometer with guns cause they're not after me' ? What the...?

Is that a leader who takes the oath to protect the Constitution or a narcissist with a big ego who can't accept defeat? Whaa. Didn't Steve Bannon say that he was going to claim foul anyway for financial reasons? Am I missing something; please help me sort through that and many other character flaws and get to the truth??

Or would you like me to list them all? Again, I'm playing by his rules To that end, didn't he say that people who claim the fifth have something to hide?
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
User avatar
3017Metaphysician
Posts: 1621
Joined: July 9th, 2021, 8:59 am

Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

Just so you know, I will back up any and all claims with quotes and facts from lawsuits in the past and other self serving contradictions and nefarious behavior over the last 5 years or so, hence:

‘If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth?’ -Donald J. Trump.

It should be noted that he is clearly within his rights to do that however some states will use it against you in the end...to be continued... .

It should also be noted that he's trying to deflect criticism by acting like, frankly, a baby suggesting that since his house was raided he doesn't feel inclined to cooperate. Whaa. I can only refer you to the OP, cult of personality!!!?!!!

It's all emotion folks.

Hey I want royalties now :D
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
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Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by Sculptor1 »

The only thing that could be called Trumpism is a tendency to say the first thing that comes into your head that you think makes you look good regardless or whether or not it is true.
Boris Johnson does it more effectively, and with a smile. But he has gone down.
Why Trump seems to be still standing is beyond my imagination. Is the US so weak minded?
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Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 6:20 pm The only thing that could be called Trumpism is a tendency to say the first thing that comes into your head that you think makes you look good regardless or whether or not it is true.
Boris Johnson does it more effectively, and with a smile. But he has gone down.
Why Trump seems to be still standing is beyond my imagination. Is the US so weak minded?
Thanks Sculptor1!

Personally I felt like there was a sense of vindication and 'truth' that here in America the majority of people saw through the BS and voted him out. Many people didn't really care for Biden but it was the lesser of two evils. I know you are from a different country and certainly appreciate your perspective in that regard...
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
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Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by chewybrian »

Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 6:20 pm The only thing that could be called Trumpism is a tendency to say the first thing that comes into your head that you think makes you look good regardless or whether or not it is true.
That is definitely a large element of his schtick. However, beneath his "stream of semi-consciousness" style, he does use some purposeful tactics. He tries to divide and conquer and create a sense of fear so that he can portray himself as the white knight. He (not so subtly) plays on peoples' prejudices and conceit, patriotism and false memories of American exceptionalism that gloss over all the problems and abuses that went along with the successes.
Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 6:20 pm Boris Johnson does it more effectively, and with a smile. But he has gone down.
Why Trump seems to be still standing is beyond my imagination. Is the US so weak minded?
Sadly, yes. This traces back to Reagan removing the Fairness Doctrine, meaning anything went from that point forward in all media (no more requirements to present both sides or even act in the public interest). The folks in my Dad's generation got a solid 20 year's indoctrination from Rush Limbaugh and another 20 from Fox News. My Dad drags me down to the VFW or the Elks club from time to time, and Trump could fit right in with all of them, and that's why they love him so much. They can't stand the fact that gays can get married, or that women can get abortions, or that a non-citizen could vote or get a driver's license. They are taught that anything any minority gets necessarily comes at their expense. The 1% who don't pay taxes aren't stealing from them; it's the immigrants, the minorities, the gays! Nearly half of America can't wait to vote for Trump again, and if the Republicans make gains in the midterms, they will grease the rails.

Back to the real topic (I think), it is sad that most of us don't see logical fallacies of any kind when they are presented to us. There will always be another Trump. We have to see these people for what they are (which is not that freakin' hard!), or we will be in trouble soon enough, from Trump or DeSantis or another one like them.
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."
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Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

chewybrian wrote: August 10th, 2022, 7:37 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 6:20 pm The only thing that could be called Trumpism is a tendency to say the first thing that comes into your head that you think makes you look good regardless or whether or not it is true.
That is definitely a large element of his schtick. However, beneath his "stream of semi-consciousness" style, he does use some purposeful tactics. He tries to divide and conquer and create a sense of fear so that he can portray himself as the white knight. He (not so subtly) plays on peoples' prejudices and conceit, patriotism and false memories of American exceptionalism that gloss over all the problems and abuses that went along with the successes.
Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 6:20 pm Boris Johnson does it more effectively, and with a smile. But he has gone down.
Why Trump seems to be still standing is beyond my imagination. Is the US so weak minded?
Sadly, yes. This traces back to Reagan removing the Fairness Doctrine, meaning anything went from that point forward in all media (no more requirements to present both sides or even act in the public interest). The folks in my Dad's generation got a solid 20 year's indoctrination from Rush Limbaugh and another 20 from Fox News. My Dad drags me down to the VFW or the Elks club from time to time, and Trump could fit right in with all of them, and that's why they love him so much. They can't stand the fact that gays can get married, or that women can get abortions, or that a non-citizen could vote or get a driver's license. They are taught that anything any minority gets necessarily comes at their expense. The 1% who don't pay taxes aren't stealing from them; it's the immigrants, the minorities, the gays! Nearly half of America can't wait to vote for Trump again, and if the Republicans make gains in the midterms, they will grease the rails.

Back to the real topic (I think), it is sad that most of us don't see logical fallacies of any kind when they are presented to us. There will always be another Trump. We have to see these people for what they are (which is not that freakin' hard!), or we will be in trouble soon enough, from Trump or DeSantis or another one like them.
LOL.... well said. I loved the reference to the infamous William James phrase only with a trumpian twist 'stream of SEMI-consciousness '. Ha! Perhaps we need to rephrase all of it and draw some inference from Freudian jargon and call it his 'unconsciousness' !

Of course, with respect to some of the issues, without doing a survey, generally people want people to come to America and pay taxes. But you got to wonder whether greedy business owners prefer illegal immigrants because it's cheaper for them to hire and pay under the table even though it's risky to do so. I could be wrong there because I think the laws have tightened up to where the risks for businesses are greater than the gains.

But back to a spin-off version if the MAGA meme that, as you somewhat alluded to or at least reminded me of, was just a political slogan to instill fear and present a night and shining armor persona that will bring everything back to 1950 and America will be saved again. For him and his character/track record/,personal behavior (adultery and misogyny), not only is it a false narrative for him and hypocritical, but it's a false dilemma (back to the OP logical fallacies).

I'll research it, but my gut tells me that actually completely returning to 1950 has more negatives than positives particularly relative to racism, equal rights for women, and the benefits of modern technology, to say the least.

As I'm thinking aloud there, it's as if I should remind myself of that 'cult of personality' with every response...
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
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Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by LuckyR »

Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 6:20 pm The only thing that could be called Trumpism is a tendency to say the first thing that comes into your head that you think makes you look good regardless or whether or not it is true.
Boris Johnson does it more effectively, and with a smile. But he has gone down.
Why Trump seems to be still standing is beyond my imagination. Is the US so weak minded?
I believe gullible is the word you're looking for.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sculptor1
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Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by Sculptor1 »

3017Metaphysician wrote: August 10th, 2022, 6:32 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 6:20 pm The only thing that could be called Trumpism is a tendency to say the first thing that comes into your head that you think makes you look good regardless or whether or not it is true.
Boris Johnson does it more effectively, and with a smile. But he has gone down.
Why Trump seems to be still standing is beyond my imagination. Is the US so weak minded?
Thanks Sculptor1!

Personally I felt like there was a sense of vindication and 'truth' that here in America the majority of people saw through the BS and voted him out. Many people didn't really care for Biden but it was the lesser of two evils. I know you are from a different country and certainly appreciate your perspective in that regard...
Indeed.
It is worth mentioning that Trump actually got 3 million fewer votes than Clinton, and 6 million votes fewer than Biden. So there is still hope for the US.
I note that one of Trump's buddies in the highway of hate; Alex Jones has lost his case and been told to compensate the victims of his bile to the tune of several million dollars.
Baby steps.
Let's hope the Democrats can get their arses in gear to offer better candidates.
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Re: Trumpism is not logical

Post by Sculptor1 »

LuckyR wrote: August 11th, 2022, 3:10 am
Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 6:20 pm The only thing that could be called Trumpism is a tendency to say the first thing that comes into your head that you think makes you look good regardless or whether or not it is true.
Boris Johnson does it more effectively, and with a smile. But he has gone down.
Why Trump seems to be still standing is beyond my imagination. Is the US so weak minded?
I believe gullible is the word you're looking for.
Yes, but hope is on the horizon?
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