All the institutions have been hijacked

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heracleitos
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All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by heracleitos »

School, college, employment, marriage, retirement ... these are just a few of the institutions. There are many more. They have all been hijacked by outside interests and completely corrupted. If you participate in any of them, you will get duly ripped off. The fact that on the long run, a corrupt society does not last, was of no concern for the ones who did the hijacking. As John Maynard Keynes famously pointed out:

But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead.

Keynes said that about 1975. He died in 1946.

For example, "social security" was introduced in the USA in 1935. Ever since, they have been pointing out that the scheme will necessarily and inevitable go bankrupt.
mainstream media wrote: Social Security’s trust funds were projected to have a depletion date of 2035 in the latest report from the program’s trustees, one year later than was projected last year. That is no reason to celebrate. “We’re getting into that area where immediate action will be required,” said Alicia Munnell, director of the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College. But even with a new depletion date of 2035 — a year later than projected last year — the program still faces a 75-year deficit. Much of the shortfall Social Security faces today may be explained by changing demographics that have led to a gap between income and cost rates.

In 1964, women had an average of 3.2 children. By 1974, that fell to 1.8.
It was already obvious in 1935 that such scheme was doomed. People would no longer need children, because someone else's children were going to work and pay for their retirement benefits anyway. Unfortunately, if everyone thinks like that -- and everyone does -- then at some point such society will run out of someone else's children.

Nowadays, I live in a country where my children won't be asked to pay for someone else's parents. Seriously, if people want the next generation to take care of them in their old age, then let them make these children and raise them by themselves, instead of trying to leech off of someone else's efforts.
GE Morton
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Re: All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by GE Morton »

heracleitos wrote: October 8th, 2022, 10:57 am Seriously, if people want the next generation to take care of them in their old age, then let them make these children and raise them by themselves, instead of trying to leech off of someone else's efforts.
Democracy pretty much guarantees (and of course legitimizes) leeching.
heracleitos
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Re: All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by heracleitos »

GE Morton wrote: October 8th, 2022, 1:19 pm Democracy pretty much guarantees (and of course legitimizes) leeching.
Agreed. Democracy is clearly doomed. I personally even think that democracy will be gone even before 2035.
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chewybrian
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Re: All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by chewybrian »

heracleitos wrote: October 8th, 2022, 10:57 am School, college, employment, marriage, retirement ... these are just a few of the institutions. There are many more. They have all been hijacked by outside interests and completely corrupted. If you participate in any of them, you will get duly ripped off. The fact that on the long run, a corrupt society does not last, was of no concern for the ones who did the hijacking. As John Maynard Keynes famously pointed out:

But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead.

Keynes said that about 1975. He died in 1946.

For example, "social security" was introduced in the USA in 1935. Ever since, they have been pointing out that the scheme will necessarily and inevitable go bankrupt.
mainstream media wrote: Social Security’s trust funds were projected to have a depletion date of 2035 in the latest report from the program’s trustees, one year later than was projected last year. That is no reason to celebrate. “We’re getting into that area where immediate action will be required,” said Alicia Munnell, director of the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College. But even with a new depletion date of 2035 — a year later than projected last year — the program still faces a 75-year deficit. Much of the shortfall Social Security faces today may be explained by changing demographics that have led to a gap between income and cost rates.

In 1964, women had an average of 3.2 children. By 1974, that fell to 1.8.
It was already obvious in 1935 that such scheme was doomed. People would no longer need children, because someone else's children were going to work and pay for their retirement benefits anyway. Unfortunately, if everyone thinks like that -- and everyone does -- then at some point such society will run out of someone else's children.

Nowadays, I live in a country where my children won't be asked to pay for someone else's parents. Seriously, if people want the next generation to take care of them in their old age, then let them make these children and raise them by themselves, instead of trying to leech off of someone else's efforts.
Social security is one of the best ideas we've ever had. It combines disability insurance with retirement savings, forcing everyone to have both, which is wise. It provides funds for government projects, and it could provide capital for business if we let it.

The only problem is that we don't manage it properly, or at least we don't seem to appreciate the fact that it has funded the government debt we crave for other projects. If, instead of taking the cash and replacing it with an IOU, we repaid to social security the principal and interest on the money we borrowed from it, there would be no shortfall.

The idea that the free market would, could or should take care of people who became disabled or were not wise enough to save for their retirement is just libertarian nonsense. We should have people dying in the streets then, because they were injured and became unable to work, or unwise or unlucky in their investment choices, or unwise enough not to save?
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."
heracleitos
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Re: All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by heracleitos »

chewybrian wrote: October 9th, 2022, 3:55 am Social security is one of the best ideas we've ever had. It combines disability insurance with retirement savings, forcing everyone to have both, which is wise.
I am absolutely not sure if forcing other people is a particularly wise idea. I personally tend to react more like the Afghans do, when you try to force them. That response is the ideal to me. If someone forces me, I prefer to duly force back, and see how he likes it in turn.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by Pattern-chaser »

GE Morton wrote: October 8th, 2022, 1:19 pm Democracy pretty much guarantees (and of course legitimizes) leeching.
heracleitos wrote: October 8th, 2022, 4:10 pm Agreed. Democracy is clearly doomed. I personally even think that democracy will be gone even before 2035.
There are those who would say that democracy is long gone from the shores of the USA. Some might even suggest that the US is a Capitalist dictatorship?

I suspect that all current implementations of democracy, across the world, are compromised to some extent.
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GE Morton
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Re: All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by GE Morton »

chewybrian wrote: October 9th, 2022, 3:55 am
The only problem is that we don't manage it properly, or at least we don't seem to appreciate the fact that it has funded the government debt we crave for other projects. If, instead of taking the cash and replacing it with an IOU, we repaid to social security the principal and interest on the money we borrowed from it, there would be no shortfall.
The projected deficits in Social Security are derived by comparing expected future revenues to expected future claims (beneficiary payments). Repayment of those IOUs would stave off the red ink by about 2.5 years (SS holds about $2.75 trillion in Treasury notes; it disburses about $1.1 trillion annually in benefits). The underlying problem would remain.

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/who-own ... bt-3306124

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/trust-funds-summary.html

The idea that the free market would, could or should take care of people who became disabled or were not wise enough to save for their retirement is just libertarian nonsense. [/quote]

No libertarian would claim that "the market" would take care anyone. The "market" is not a charity; the term denotes the economic process of producing and exchanging goods and services. Taking care of people in need is a task for other people who care about those people, such as relatives, perhaps churches, voluntary charities. No one has any a priori obligation to take care of anyone else; Alfie is responsible for meeting Bruno's needs only if those needs arose due to some act of Alfie's.
GE Morton
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Re: All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by GE Morton »

Pattern-chaser wrote: October 9th, 2022, 8:49 am
There are those who would say that democracy is long gone from the shores of the USA. Some might even suggest that the US is a Capitalist dictatorship?
LOL. That "capitalist dictatorship" is responsible for all the free lunch schemes that consume about 60% of the federal budget (the latest being Biden's student debt forgiveness giveaway)?
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Pattern-chaser wrote: October 9th, 2022, 8:49 am There are those who would say that democracy is long gone from the shores of the USA. Some might even suggest that the US is a Capitalist dictatorship?
GE Morton wrote: October 9th, 2022, 11:44 am LOL. That "capitalist dictatorship" is responsible for all the free lunch schemes that consume about 60% of the federal budget (the latest being Biden's student debt forgiveness giveaway)?
I thought military spending accounted for >50% of the USA's budget, leaving no room for 60% to be allocated elsewhere. Is it no longer the case (that military spending is >50%)?
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GE Morton
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Re: All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by GE Morton »

Pattern-chaser wrote: October 12th, 2022, 9:40 am
Pattern-chaser wrote: October 9th, 2022, 8:49 am There are those who would say that democracy is long gone from the shores of the USA. Some might even suggest that the US is a Capitalist dictatorship?
GE Morton wrote: October 9th, 2022, 11:44 am LOL. That "capitalist dictatorship" is responsible for all the free lunch schemes that consume about 60% of the federal budget (the latest being Biden's student debt forgiveness giveaway)?
I thought military spending accounted for >50% of the USA's budget, leaving no room for 60% to be allocated elsewhere. Is it no longer the case (that military spending is >50%)?
That was never the case. Defense consumes about 16% of the US federal budget. You may have seen the graph debunked in this article:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ternet-mi/

The actual breakdown is here (most recent year I could find with a pie chart):
Attachments
fedbudget2016.jpg
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Ah, OK. Sorry for my misunderstanding.
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GE Morton
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Re: All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by GE Morton »

Pattern-chaser wrote: October 12th, 2022, 11:25 am Ah, OK. Sorry for my misunderstanding.
I always find this graph depressing. From the ratification of the Constitution in 1789 to 1930 governments at all levels in the US consumed ~7% of GDP. Beginning with the "New Deal" in the early '30s it began to grow. Governments now consume about 45% of the wealth produced by Americans, most of it to deliver free lunches to every imaginable constituent group of some politician.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: All the institutions have been hijacked

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Well, it must be said that the whole point about levying taxes is that the money raised will be used for the benefit of the electorate, no?
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