Thank you for your service(?) Tell us about patriotism.

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chewybrian
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Thank you for your service(?) Tell us about patriotism.

Post by chewybrian »

"Thank you for your service" is somethings Americans say and hear often. Businesses give discounts and special parking privileges to veterans. This is the time we remember those who were lost. The question is: are we doing the right thing by honoring peoples' military service? Are we unintentionally adding fuel to the fire for the next conflict by celebrating the conflicts of the past? Would we be better off saying: "I'm sorry you had to serve" or something else instead? Is there any positive aspect to patriotism in general? It seems to be used to crush fair analysis and discussion of world affairs.
It's been used to justify many questionable actions, and it's gotten a lot of people killed.
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Re: Thank you for your service(?) Tell us about patriotism.

Post by LuckyR »

chewybrian wrote: May 27th, 2023, 6:00 pm "Thank you for your service" is somethings Americans say and hear often. Businesses give discounts and special parking privileges to veterans. This is the time we remember those who were lost. The question is: are we doing the right thing by honoring peoples' military service? Are we unintentionally adding fuel to the fire for the next conflict by celebrating the conflicts of the past? Would we be better off saying: "I'm sorry you had to serve" or something else instead? Is there any positive aspect to patriotism in general? It seems to be used to crush fair analysis and discussion of world affairs.
It's been used to justify many questionable actions, and it's gotten a lot of people killed.
The way the military works (which I think is a good thing) is that non-military people decide the military should be used and also decide what the objective is. The military then carries out the mission. Thus anyone who has a problem with whether the military was used at all or used well needs to hold the non-military decision makers responsible, not the military. Therefore I have no problem giving kudos to individual soldiers, sailors and marines.
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Re: Thank you for your service(?) Tell us about patriotism.

Post by Good_Egg »

It is said that if what you have to hand is a hammer, all problems start to look like a nail. If a nation has effective armed forces, there is a temptation to use them.

But yes, the answer is better decision-making. Not throwing away your hammer...
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Re: Thank you for your service(?) Tell us about patriotism.

Post by Pattern-chaser »

chewybrian wrote: May 27th, 2023, 6:00 pm Are we doing the right thing by honoring peoples' military service? [...] Would we be better off saying: "I'm sorry you had to serve" or something else instead?
Yes, we are right to honour service, service to the nation they belong to, the nation which employs them, and the nation on whose behalf they fight and die. They die on our behalf, so yes, we should definitely honour their service.

But we should not necessarily (IMO) honour the 'patriotism' that leads to the use of the military in the first place. This is the responsibility of the politicians that give the orders, as has already been (correctly) observed. We are *all* responsible for those who give the orders; we elect them.

Fire-fighters and police also place themselves in harm's way, on our behalf, and for our benefit, and deserve the same respect we afford to soldiers and veterans.
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chewybrian
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Re: Thank you for your service(?) Tell us about patriotism.

Post by chewybrian »

Pattern-chaser wrote: May 28th, 2023, 9:27 am But we should not necessarily (IMO) honour the 'patriotism' that leads to the use of the military in the first place. This is the responsibility of the politicians that give the orders, as has already been (correctly) observed. We are *all* responsible for those who give the orders; we elect them.
Agreed, except that I wouldn't say the politicians shoulder the responsibility *alone*. They couldn't exploit our racism, homophobia or our excessive patriotism if we did not have these flaws in our character in the first place.


Pattern-chaser wrote: May 28th, 2023, 9:27 am Fire-fighters and police also place themselves in harm's way, on our behalf, and for our benefit, and deserve the same respect we afford to soldiers and veterans.
I don't disagree with this either, except that I think it is important to note that these jobs are nowhere near the most dangerous (I would link, but since we can't you'll have to search if you want to verify this). Should we then honor the service of the manager at the 7-11, the girl delivering our pizza, the man trimming our trees, or the guy fishing for salmon in Alaska? Maybe we should, as those jobs and many others are far more dangerous than being a firefighter or a policeman or police woman.
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Re: Thank you for your service(?) Tell us about patriotism.

Post by Pattern-chaser »

chewybrian wrote: May 28th, 2023, 11:46 am
Pattern-chaser wrote: May 28th, 2023, 9:27 am But we should not necessarily (IMO) honour the 'patriotism' that leads to the use of the military in the first place. This is the responsibility of the politicians that give the orders, as has already been (correctly) observed. We are *all* responsible for those who give the orders; we elect them.
Agreed, except that I wouldn't say the politicians shoulder the responsibility *alone*. They couldn't exploit our racism, homophobia or our excessive patriotism if we did not have these flaws in our character in the first place.


Pattern-chaser wrote: May 28th, 2023, 9:27 am Fire-fighters and police also place themselves in harm's way, on our behalf, and for our benefit, and deserve the same respect we afford to soldiers and veterans.
I don't disagree with this either, except that I think it is important to note that these jobs are nowhere near the most dangerous (I would link, but since we can't you'll have to search if you want to verify this). Should we then honor the service of the manager at the 7-11, the girl delivering our pizza, the man trimming our trees, or the guy fishing for salmon in Alaska? Maybe we should, as those jobs and many others are far more dangerous than being a firefighter or a policeman or police woman.
Yes, we delegate the decision-making to politicians, but we all (politicians and electorate alike) retain the responsibility. The fishermen isn't serving the public, the others do. And this topic is about public service, I think?
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