Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[whitetrshsoldier]

I'm sorry to all of those who I haven't replied to in a while; I've been pretty busy, and will try and get back to your questions soon.

However, I receieved this email today, and I think it represents a pretty interesting picture of where we've come in the past few decades. What do you all think?

This might be funny if it weren't so damn true.
Be sure to read all the way to the end:

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for peanuts
Anyway!
Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ass.

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.
Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid.

Put these words
Upon his tomb,
Taxes drove me
to my doom....'

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge T ax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Ser vice FeeTax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge=2 0Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY? Most of these taxes did not exist 60 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

My assertion, along with the author of this email's, is that interference with the free-market economy [in the form of government sanctions such as taxes] have led to the destruction of our country.

And with the road that we're currently heading down, I argue that the carnage will only continue.

[Juice]

What is it that makes us American? There is not a place any American can go on the face of the earth where he will not be identified as such, no matter his race, ethnicity, religion or financial status. Places in America are some of the most recognized places in the world. American icons are the most recognized in the world.

The ability of peoples in the world to speak out against the US is not a disgrace but a strength since in most countries people are not allowed or are restricted from speaking out against their own governments. Here it has become the privilege of apology.

Instead of respecting the rights of others to speak freely as a right of freedom we instead apologize for that right.

We have become a society of derision particularly among ourselves. As a result our elected officials exemplify that derision. The more outrageous the promises and claims the more we expect derision as entertainment.

The tax formulas are an example of that thuggery which apathy and derision claim as a price for entertainment rather than governance which should be controlled and decided by "we the people".

We now expect the government to provide for us since we have sold that right to them with our sweat, hard work and earnings.

This country will survive since we are much stronger than a certain person or group but the question is when will we wake up and demand that our country be returned to its rightful guardians. The ones who know that the wealth of this country is not contained in a government or political culture but in the hearts and minds of the free people who support this country without apathy, derision or apology.

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

That poem is a fun way to point out how much the government imposes on us, and perhaps inspire more people to question government spending and taxes. Thanks whitetrshsoldier!

Tax his land

I don't consider it to be his land. So what is commonly called a land tax would, I think, be more accurately called a usage fee. And what is often call a fee charged by a so-called private person or group would be more accurately called a tax.

I do agree that generally "interference with the free-market economy" causes a lot of the social and economic problems we have. I think order, peace and prosperity are the eventual product of freedom. But I believe what is often called private and called non-governmental is often quite authoritarian, unfair and unfree. And I believe sometimes what an institution that we call a government does protects our freedom more than it infringes on it. For example, consider when a government officer uses force to defend a citizen from a murderer. In that example, the murderer is the authoritarian and the so-called government is the anti-authoritarian.

Unfortunately, in practice, many people disagree on what is an infringement on freedom and what is not.

Regarding taxes, I would love to see taxes on the working class (and the so-called middle-class) greatly reduced so that they are no longer paying a higher percentage than the rich. I also would like fees charged to the rich (such as when they use vast amounts of our natural resources) to stop them from taking more than they make and thus lessen the separation between the rich and the poor, even if those fees are misleadingly called taxes.

To answer the question about America failing, I do think that the fact a government taxes the working class more than the rich would make that nation more likely to fail and make that country a less pleasant place for most of its citizens.

[Juice]

Tax porpotionality is always a tricky subject especially as the US Tax Code is convoluted to say the least. In its almost 10,000 pages and some 500 million words only by the most surreptitious accountanting can some semblance of equanimity be obtained.

Although I can somewhat appreciate the "land usage" analogy I live in a community where property taxes go directly towards education from which both my children benefit and comes to about the same payments as a private education. Plus my house also constitutes part of an investment towards a self sufficient retirement.

We as the people should demand a more equatable tax such as a "Flat Tax" which would also secure governmental budget stability is a matter which must be addressed in as strong a manner as possible.

But I must take issue with the claim that the wealthiest Americans are not responsible for the majority of the tax burden.

The top 5% of taxpayers pay more than 50% of the tax burden while the bottom 50% of taxpayers pay less than 4% of the burden.

Even the Bush tax cuts which were tauted as a break for the rich actually increased the burden on the wealthy by almost 7%.

The problem here is one of porpotionality and a move away from federalism to more federal government intrusion into our lives. The more bureaucratic programs the federal government assumes the more the tax burden increases. How do we change this? By holding government accountable for mismanagement and growing government. By electing officials who will secure a balanced budget and not by holding future generations accountable for the excesses and poor policies of today. By returning autonomy to the states.

The following websites reference my statements.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/341.html

http://www.american.com/graphics/2007/n ... 0Taxes.jpg

[Chris_winW]

I have seen how real estate investors often miss out on legitimate tax savings which they would be able to take advantage of just because they do not know the right strategies for maximising their tax periods.

[eyesofastranger]

This response should be a separate thread but I can't get here enough for that. Apologies.
As a Canadian I have a confession. Us well traveled Canuks genuinely see the US as a **** country. I am trying to be delicate as we are polite and don't say it aloud to our American brothren. As your wanna be dictator threatens us with his 51st state nonsense. I'm sure he has advisers in the know of how impossible that would be.
The tariff game is real however. As this becomes reality we are pursuing becoming a Euro nation. No one I have spoken with is strongly against that possibility.
Small town USA is wonderful. My work has landed me in Vegas a few times. My wife and I, there with a wedding party so time to wonder the strip. We ended up 10 feet from a drive-by shooting. Big cities remind me of Gotham City. That would be front page across all of Canada usually. I looked the next day. What happens in Vegas, yadda yadda.
We have had one on one school shootings. There was a really bad one in 1975 in Montreal. The Concordia University massacre was the early 90's but that was directed towards faculty, not students. We have incidents but Just making a point.
Last time I required treatment. (a few stiches) the woman next to me was there because her young daughter got shampoo in her eye. Of course the Triage nurse would have bumped her care to the very bottom of the list but, it was a slow day and on my way out they where in a treatment room. I'd imagine an insurance company would be great to deal with on that one. The US has one of the lowest life expectancies with some of the worlds most expensive health care and among the worst outcomes.
I understand the Americans here whom I have followed their posts for many years are educated and I feel I'm stereotyping and I apologize. I have to live there to fully understand. I see things like Fox news or a President making up the most absurd things I've ever heard. I read that some actually believe him. This has become way too long.
For fun our first amendment is the recognition of Manitoba as a province. Freedom of speech and separation of church and gov is mostly in our Bill of Rights.

[LuckyR]

This response should be a separate thread but I can't get here enough for that. Apologies.
As a Canadian I have a confession. Us well traveled Canuks genuinely see the US as a **** country. I am trying to be delicate as we are polite and don't say it aloud to our American brothren. As your wanna be dictator threatens us with his 51st state nonsense. I'm sure he has advisers in the know of how impossible that would be.
The tariff game is real however. As this becomes reality we are pursuing becoming a Euro nation. No one I have spoken with is strongly against that possibility.
Small town USA is wonderful. My work has landed me in Vegas a few times. My wife and I, there with a wedding party so time to wonder the strip. We ended up 10 feet from a drive-by shooting. Big cities remind me of Gotham City. That would be front page across all of Canada usually. I looked the next day. What happens in Vegas, yadda yadda.
We have had one on one school shootings. There was a really bad one in 1975 in Montreal. The Concordia University massacre was the early 90's but that was directed towards faculty, not students. We have incidents but Just making a point.
Last time I required treatment. (a few stiches) the woman next to me was there because her young daughter got shampoo in her eye. Of course the Triage nurse would have bumped her care to the very bottom of the list but, it was a slow day and on my way out they where in a treatment room. I'd imagine an insurance company would be great to deal with on that one. The US has one of the lowest life expectancies with some of the worlds most expensive health care and among the worst outcomes.
I understand the Americans here whom I have followed their posts for many years are educated and I feel I'm stereotyping and I apologize. I have to live there to fully understand. I see things like Fox news or a President making up the most absurd things I've ever heard. I read that some actually believe him. This has become way too long.
For fun our first amendment is the recognition of Manitoba as a province. Freedom of speech and separation of church and gov is mostly in our Bill of Rights.

Yes, superiority is a very comforting mindset for just about everyone. I practice it myself on a semi-regular basis. Obviously moderation in all things, but I get you.

[Sy Borg]

America's biggest failure is not securing their borders. A significant part of the cost of this negligence and naivete are hundreds of thousands of fentanyl deaths.

The US's next biggest failure, along with the rest of the west, was allowing Marxism to engage in its long march through institutions. Now, the only "respectable" opinions in many academic areas are those that parrot Marxist university teaching, while commonsense and logic are now considered absurd, racist or reactionary. Centrism is now labelled "far right".

[LuckyR]

America's biggest failure is not securing their borders. A significant part of the cost of this negligence and naivete are hundreds of thousands of fentanyl deaths.

The US's next biggest failure, along with the rest of the west, was allowing Marxism to engage in its long march through institutions. Now, the only "respectable" opinions in many academic areas are those that parrot Marxist university teaching, while commonsense and logic are now considered absurd, racist or reactionary. Centrism is now labelled "far right".

Are you implying that asylum policy has anything to do with smuggler success?

[Sy Borg]

America's biggest failure is not securing their borders. A significant part of the cost of this negligence and naivete are hundreds of thousands of fentanyl deaths.

The US's next biggest failure, along with the rest of the west, was allowing Marxism to engage in its long march through institutions. Now, the only "respectable" opinions in many academic areas are those that parrot Marxist university teaching, while commonsense and logic are now considered absurd, racist or reactionary. Centrism is now labelled "far right".

Are you implying that asylum policy has anything to do with smuggler success?

I am saying (not implying) that the US allowing many millions of people through the border with no checks or requirements won't go unnoticed by drug lords seeking more access to the lucrative illicit US drug market.

[Mo_reese]

America is failing because of unregulated capitalism and a culture that promotes blind faith in authority.

America the biggest bully.

[Mounce574]

Call me biased, but America is failing due to the growing division between the people. For instance, "peaceful protests" are not peaceful. Instead, many of the participants start fires, vandalize, loot, and commit violent acts upon innocent bystanders. Half of the protesters really don't know the facts of what they are protesting. Several examples are the college students who say free Palestine when that isn't the actual issue occurring in Israel. They don't take into account Isis caused a mass murder in the country. It's not a well known fact that the "Palestinian government" refuses to negotiate and part of their intended rights would to be erase Israel completely.
Are academic institutions are deplorable. Instead of teaching math, history, science, etc, we have children asking if they are a boy or a girl, that white people have an imaginary privilege, and black people are oppressed.
I agree with Trump on some issues, but not all of them. I could be considered a conservative, but I actually believe that I fall in the middle because I weigh each individual topic and make an informed decision before stating what I believe.

[LuckyR]

America's biggest failure is not securing their borders. A significant part of the cost of this negligence and naivete are hundreds of thousands of fentanyl deaths.

The US's next biggest failure, along with the rest of the west, was allowing Marxism to engage in its long march through institutions. Now, the only "respectable" opinions in many academic areas are those that parrot Marxist university teaching, while commonsense and logic are now considered absurd, racist or reactionary. Centrism is now labelled "far right".

Are you implying that asylum policy has anything to do with smuggler success?

I am saying (not implying) that the US allowing many millions of people through the border with no checks or requirements won't go unnoticed by drug lords seeking more access to the lucrative illicit US drug market.

My guess is that drug smuggler interest in the lucrative illicit US drug market predated whatever specific US immigration policy you're referring to.

[Pattern-chaser]

Call me biased, but America is failing due to the growing division between the people. For instance, "peaceful protests" are not peaceful. Instead, many of the participants start fires, vandalize, loot, and commit violent acts upon innocent bystanders. Half of the protesters really don't know the facts of what they are protesting. Several examples are the college students who say free Palestine when that isn't the actual issue occurring in Israel.

Aren't these students referring to what's happening in Palestine, not Israel? Your own words seem to say so...?

They don't take into account Isis caused a mass murder in the country. It's not a well known fact that the "Palestinian government" refuses to negotiate and part of their intended rights would to be erase Israel completely.

That is a well-known claim, that has been made many times. It is disputed by many.

[Mo_reese]

Call me biased, but America is failing due to the growing division between the people. For instance, "peaceful protests" are not peaceful. Instead, many of the participants start fires, vandalize, loot, and commit violent acts upon innocent bystanders.

Protesting is a right and necessity of a democratic system. The Authoritarian State does not like protests. It's easy for the State to allow or encourage off duty police, neo-nazi's, or anarchists to turn a peaceful protest violent. One person breaks a few windows and the police have justification to bash heads of anyone. Hell the police don't even have to have violence to justify their brutalization. Occupy Wall Street was peaceful. No violence and yet people were brutalized. The federal government under Obama actually helped the police identify people in the protests.
Do you believe in the right to protest? If so how would you suggest peaceful protesters prevent those that want violence from co-opting a demonstration.
I do agree that protesters not inconvenience the general public, although I do recognize the reason. Protests should be aimed at those that are violating the will of the people.

America is failing because of unregulated capitalism and a culture that promotes blind faith in authority.