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Does Society Need Prisons?

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Sculptor1
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Robert66 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 3:06 am
Sculptor1 wrote: June 19th, 2022, 5:46 pm
Robert66 wrote: June 19th, 2022, 4:55 pm Do you think if you keep insulting me I will start agreeing with you?
I do not care if you agree with me.
So seem to be not paying attention to the world around you.
I assume you meant "You seem ..." rather than "So seem ...". If that is correct then lucky me I have gathered another insult. If someone pays attention to the world around them (like you do) but reaches a different conclusion, or has a different attitude or opinion, then they must be wrong? My turn to insult: I give you 0 out of 10 for that thinking.
That is a compliment coming from you.
Since a person who fails to pay attention is not best equipped to judge another's thinking.
BTW.
"..so seem" is a conditional statement, which links the previous thought to the current one.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Robert66 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 2:57 am Trust is not hard to earn but...
Trust is hard to earn, because (normal, human) people take a while before they trust someone. They want to see the trustworthy behaviour quite often before they start to trust. I'm surprised you disagree; I thought I was expressing more-or-less universally-held views. It appears not.
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Robert66
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Robert66 »

Pattern-chaser wrote: June 29th, 2022, 12:54 pm
Robert66 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 2:57 am Trust is not hard to earn but...
Trust is hard to earn, because (normal, human) people take a while before they trust someone. They want to see the trustworthy behaviour quite often before they start to trust. I'm surprised you disagree; I thought I was expressing more-or-less universally-held views. It appears not.
FFS does half a sentence have the same meaning as the whole sentence?
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Robert66
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Robert66 »

Sculptor1 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 5:24 am
Robert66 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 3:06 am If someone pays attention to the world around them (like you do) but reaches a different conclusion, or has a different attitude or opinion, then they must be wrong?

Since a person who fails to pay attention is not best equipped to judge another's thinking.
Your world is a bleak, endless winter.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Robert66 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 5:25 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 5:24 am
Robert66 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 3:06 am If someone pays attention to the world around them (like you do) but reaches a different conclusion, or has a different attitude or opinion, then they must be wrong?

Since a person who fails to pay attention is not best equipped to judge another's thinking.
Your world is a bleak, endless winter.
You only think that because you live in a bariatric chamber of your own imagination
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Robert66 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 5:08 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote: June 29th, 2022, 12:54 pm
Robert66 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 2:57 am Trust is not hard to earn but...
Trust is hard to earn, because (normal, human) people take a while before they trust someone. They want to see the trustworthy behaviour quite often before they start to trust. I'm surprised you disagree; I thought I was expressing more-or-less universally-held views. It appears not.
FFS does half a sentence have the same meaning as the whole sentence?
No, it doesn't. In this case, it offers a premise that the end of the sentence refers to. I deny your premise, and so I only quoted that bit. Trust takes a long time to earn. It cannot be earned quickly or easily, but it can be lost in moments. What is there about this that you disagree with, after consulting the real world for empirical confirmation?
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Robert66
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Robert66 »

Well thanks for the English lesson. The other way to interpret my sentence - the way I intended - is: Trust is not just hard, but impossible, to earn if you are a policeman or woman living in the bleak, Hobbesian world of the grim-faced sculptor.

And isn't it a treat to enjoy the homespun philosophy of Pattern-chaser and Sculptor1? No point to disagree with them, for they have the real world to prove their point. Never mind that others might look upon the world with different eyes and mindset - these others are obviously wrong! And they will be insulted for disagreeing or even attempting to add a little nuance, because Pattern-chaser and Sculptor1 are Englishmen, and as we all know (here I offer my general claim) the English regard themselves as expert on all matters, and are forever poncing about the world stage offering their great wisdom. Of course they feel entitled to ownership of the interpretation of empirical evidence or what constitutes "the real world", just as the English have always felt entitled to whatever they want, eg other nations, dark-skinned humans.
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Robert66
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Robert66 »

Or in other words:

Do not trust the English is what I am talking about. They should be hated, not trusted.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Robert66 wrote: June 30th, 2022, 9:03 pm Well thanks for the English lesson. The other way to interpret my sentence - the way I intended - is: Trust is not just hard, but impossible, to earn if you are a policeman or woman living in the bleak, Hobbesian world of the grim-faced sculptor.
I think you exaggerate for effect. It isn't impossible because it is sometimes achieved. It is difficult, though, especially when trust in the police is already low.


Robert66 wrote: June 30th, 2022, 9:03 pm And isn't it a treat to enjoy the homespun philosophy of Pattern-chaser and Sculptor1? No point to disagree with them, for they have the real world to prove their point. Never mind that others might look upon the world with different eyes and mindset - these others are obviously wrong! And they will be insulted for disagreeing or even attempting to add a little nuance, because Pattern-chaser and Sculptor1 are Englishmen, and as we all know (here I offer my general claim) the English regard themselves as expert on all matters, and are forever poncing about the world stage offering their great wisdom. Of course they feel entitled to ownership of the interpretation of empirical evidence or what constitutes "the real world", just as the English have always felt entitled to whatever they want, eg other nations, dark-skinned humans.
Robert66 wrote: June 30th, 2022, 9:36 pm Do not trust the English is what I am talking about. They should be hated, not trusted.
Wow. OK. I really do think that the real world is our reference here, and if empirical observation supports or proves a point, then it is reasonable to mention it.

I also think you're a bit unfair to the English, though. For example, Americans are as bad, and can even be worse. And the offenders are definitely not limited to just 2 countries. Nevertheless, I'm sorry you feel they way you do. That was certainly not my intention.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Sculptor1 »

I think prisons are always going to be with us.
But what we do not need is for $trillion to be spent on a "War on Drugs", since Nixon, to incarcerate blacks and hippies who being against the Vietnam war, were considered to be "unpatriotic".
But we do not need is a 700% increase in the prison population mostly because people just want to have some fun, but come up against a system that wants to make money by turning that fun into misery for most of the 2 million Americans in gaol.
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Belindi »

Robert66 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 5:25 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 5:24 am
Robert66 wrote: June 29th, 2022, 3:06 am If someone pays attention to the world around them (like you do) but reaches a different conclusion, or has a different attitude or opinion, then they must be wrong?

Since a person who fails to pay attention is not best equipped to judge another's thinking.
Your world is a bleak, endless winter.
Hello Pollyanna! I thought you were just a character in a book!
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Robert66
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Robert66 »

Side note:

Congratulations Brits on once again getting the PM you so clearly deserve. You can go forward now, with her endless stream of platitudes and cliches in mind, into the glorious future, and never let the actually parlous state of Britain deter you from lecturing the rest of the world on how to conduct their affairs.

As to whether society needs prisons, what a significant contribution Britain has made to the prison project around the world. At one time Britain had achieved such an impressively large population of prisoners that many had to be kept in rotting hulls offshore, among them one of my ancestors. While she was near to death arriving in Australia, at least (unlike many who died en route) she had successfully escaped Old Blighty, and from then on our family were able to prosper.
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Oliver Krieger
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Oliver Krieger »

Does Society Need Prisons ?

The following is a news report, translated from the german into english by me. The original report was written by the journalist Martin Küper, on 20th of September 2022, for the "t-online Nachrichten für Deutschland" (german telekom news service for germany) :
"They conscript everybody"
Russian Detainees obviously are hardly fit for war

Russia recruits Detainees for the War against Ukraine. But the criminals do not appear to be fit for battle.

In the War against Ukraine, the russian army not only has to fight determined Defenders, but also massive personnel problems on its own side. Because the Kremlin cringes from a general mobilization, and because only few volunteers can be found for the operation, the mercenary group Wagner hires detainees en gros from russian prisons for deployment and the front - but apparently with mediocre success only."
Prisoners are expendables. Tyrannic, and abusive regimes, like the russian, make use of what "human capital" they have left over.

So, i guess, Putin would answer your original question with: Yes, indeed.
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LuckyR
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by LuckyR »

Oliver Krieger wrote: September 30th, 2022, 5:18 am Does Society Need Prisons ?

The following is a news report, translated from the german into english by me. The original report was written by the journalist Martin Küper, on 20th of September 2022, for the "t-online Nachrichten für Deutschland" (german telekom news service for germany) :
"They conscript everybody"
Russian Detainees obviously are hardly fit for war

Russia recruits Detainees for the War against Ukraine. But the criminals do not appear to be fit for battle.

In the War against Ukraine, the russian army not only has to fight determined Defenders, but also massive personnel problems on its own side. Because the Kremlin cringes from a general mobilization, and because only few volunteers can be found for the operation, the mercenary group Wagner hires detainees en gros from russian prisons for deployment and the front - but apparently with mediocre success only."
Prisoners are expendables. Tyrannic, and abusive regimes, like the russian, make use of what "human capital" they have left over.

So, i guess, Putin would answer your original question with: Yes, indeed.
The unscrupulous will seek personal profit in every conceivable avenue. However their success does not necessarily mean that the subject is corrupt.
"As usual... it depends."
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