The January 2023 Philosophy Book of the Month is Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise by John K Danenbarger.

Does Society Need Prisons?

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Sculptor1
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Sculptor1 »

It is of constant wonder to me that there seem to be more citizens from the country whose penal system has most failed (in the whole world) who call for more prisons and more executions.
Do these red-necks expect a better result by repeating their obvious failures?

Their prisons are overcrowded, their courts are overwhelmed, and it seems despite the carnage they cannot get the police to kill enough people on the streets before they so much as sniff a court.
And yet they pleas for more of the same. Kill them, imprison them, shoot them on the streets.
Yet nothing seems to work..

With each successive year more money goes into policing, prisons and legal aid, whilst less is being spent of schools. THe only growth industry in education seems to be school security systems to protect children from random acts of murder..
Belindi
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Belindi »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 21st, 2022, 10:01 am It is of constant wonder to me that there seem to be more citizens from the country whose penal system has most failed (in the whole world) who call for more prisons and more executions.
Do these red-necks expect a better result by repeating their obvious failures?

Their prisons are overcrowded, their courts are overwhelmed, and it seems despite the carnage they cannot get the police to kill enough people on the streets before they so much as sniff a court.
And yet they pleas for more of the same. Kill them, imprison them, shoot them on the streets.
Yet nothing seems to work..

With each successive year more money goes into policing, prisons and legal aid, whilst less is being spent of schools. THe only growth industry in education seems to be school security systems to protect children from random acts of murder..


I agree.
Education is the key to a fairer safer society. Do these Tories expect a better result by repeating their obvious errors?
Yes. Tories and the massively right wing USA establishment positively want to perpetuate the social class system, and for similar reasons.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Belindi wrote: December 22nd, 2022, 9:39 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 21st, 2022, 10:01 am It is of constant wonder to me that there seem to be more citizens from the country whose penal system has most failed (in the whole world) who call for more prisons and more executions.
Do these red-necks expect a better result by repeating their obvious failures?

Their prisons are overcrowded, their courts are overwhelmed, and it seems despite the carnage they cannot get the police to kill enough people on the streets before they so much as sniff a court.
And yet they pleas for more of the same. Kill them, imprison them, shoot them on the streets.
Yet nothing seems to work..

With each successive year more money goes into policing, prisons and legal aid, whilst less is being spent of schools. THe only growth industry in education seems to be school security systems to protect children from random acts of murder..


I agree.
Education is the key to a fairer safer society. Do these Tories expect a better result by repeating their obvious errors?
Yes. Tories and the massively right wing USA establishment positively want to perpetuate the social class system, and for similar reasons.
Iy's my feeling that do not give a shot.
What we have seen since 2010 is the rich looting the economy, running down public services, and privatizing selling off the their buddies for kickbacks.
Rishi is a dead man walking.
EricPH
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Joined: October 22nd, 2021, 11:26 am

Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by EricPH »

We must spend a small fortune keeping someone in prison, sadly that money and support disappears when they come out of jail. Often their relationships with partners and family are broken through crime. Many of them have been separated from their children, a number of them have children with more than one mother, and neither mother wants anything to do with them. I have known a number of ex - offenders who come out of prison with about a £100 and a tent. If they are still homeless as winter approaches, they openly say they will reoffend, as prison is better than life on the streets.

Many of these guys suffer from mental health issues and addiction, their problems are profound. I have been a volunteer mentor for ex - offenders, often homeless, encouraging them to engage is an uphill struggle. It's heart breaking seeing these guys sleeping on the streets in the middle of the night.
Belindi
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Belindi »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 22nd, 2022, 11:24 am
Belindi wrote: December 22nd, 2022, 9:39 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 21st, 2022, 10:01 am It is of constant wonder to me that there seem to be more citizens from the country whose penal system has most failed (in the whole world) who call for more prisons and more executions.
Do these red-necks expect a better result by repeating their obvious failures?

Their prisons are overcrowded, their courts are overwhelmed, and it seems despite the carnage they cannot get the police to kill enough people on the streets before they so much as sniff a court.
And yet they pleas for more of the same. Kill them, imprison them, shoot them on the streets.
Yet nothing seems to work..

With each successive year more money goes into policing, prisons and legal aid, whilst less is being spent of schools. THe only growth industry in education seems to be school security systems to protect children from random acts of murder..


I agree.
Education is the key to a fairer safer society. Do these Tories expect a better result by repeating their obvious errors?
Yes. Tories and the massively right wing USA establishment positively want to perpetuate the social class system, and for similar reasons.
Iy's my feeling that do not give a shot.
What we have seen since 2010 is the rich looting the economy, running down public services, and privatizing selling off the their buddies for kickbacks.
Rishi is a dead man walking.
His wealth has castrated him.
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Sculptor1
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Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Belindi wrote: December 23rd, 2022, 7:49 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 22nd, 2022, 11:24 am
Belindi wrote: December 22nd, 2022, 9:39 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 21st, 2022, 10:01 am It is of constant wonder to me that there seem to be more citizens from the country whose penal system has most failed (in the whole world) who call for more prisons and more executions.
Do these red-necks expect a better result by repeating their obvious failures?

Their prisons are overcrowded, their courts are overwhelmed, and it seems despite the carnage they cannot get the police to kill enough people on the streets before they so much as sniff a court.
And yet they pleas for more of the same. Kill them, imprison them, shoot them on the streets.
Yet nothing seems to work..

With each successive year more money goes into policing, prisons and legal aid, whilst less is being spent of schools. THe only growth industry in education seems to be school security systems to protect children from random acts of murder..


I agree.
Education is the key to a fairer safer society. Do these Tories expect a better result by repeating their obvious errors?
Yes. Tories and the massively right wing USA establishment positively want to perpetuate the social class system, and for similar reasons.
Iy's my feeling that do not give a ****.
What we have seen since 2010 is the rich looting the economy, running down public services, and privatizing selling off the their buddies for kickbacks.
Rishi is a dead man walking.
His wealth has castrated him.
More like blinded him.
ilze herholdt
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Posts: 13
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by ilze herholdt »

I do agree that criminals who doesn't endanger other people shouldn't be thrown into jail. But it would be impossible to put an end to prison. Murderers needs to be put behind bars. Besides even if this theory rationalizes, there are not enough space in mental institutions for the murderers, criminal offensers, and such.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

EricPH wrote: December 22nd, 2022, 2:55 pm We must spend a small fortune keeping someone in prison, sadly that money and support disappears when they come out of jail. Often their relationships with partners and family are broken through crime. Many of them have been separated from their children, a number of them have children with more than one mother, and neither mother wants anything to do with them. I have known a number of ex - offenders who come out of prison with about a £100 and a tent. If they are still homeless as winter approaches, they openly say they will reoffend, as prison is better than life on the streets.

Many of these guys suffer from mental health issues and addiction, their problems are profound. I have been a volunteer mentor for ex - offenders, often homeless, encouraging them to engage is an uphill struggle. It's heart breaking seeing these guys sleeping on the streets in the middle of the night.
👍

There are countries that achieve much lower re-offending rates than those that concentrate on prison and imprisonment. But we are not willing even to try out their methods.

Perhaps it's because our politicians are afraid they will be branded by the media as 'soft on crime (or criminals)'?

Whatever the reason(s), it is clear that there are ways of treating criminals that give better results (to and for the society in which they take place) than our current policies do. The 'War on Crime' is yet another of these so-called 'Wars' that has failed us badly. Perhaps it's time for a little evidence-based criminology? Let's try what has worked for others, to see if it can work for us?
Pattern-chaser

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LuckyR
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by LuckyR »

ilze herholdt wrote: January 25th, 2023, 3:30 pm I do agree that criminals who doesn't endanger other people shouldn't be thrown into jail. But it would be impossible to put an end to prison. Murderers needs to be put behind bars. Besides even if this theory rationalizes, there are not enough space in mental institutions for the murderers, criminal offensers, and such.
By "endanger" sounds like you mean physically. So white collar crime is unpunished? Rob a store for $100, go to prison, scam a retiree for $100,000, serve probation?
"As usual... it depends."
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

ilze herholdt wrote: January 25th, 2023, 3:30 pm I do agree that criminals who doesn't endanger other people shouldn't be thrown into jail. But it would be impossible to put an end to prison. Murderers needs to be put behind bars. Besides even if this theory rationalizes, there are not enough space in mental institutions for the murderers, criminal offensers, and such.
If there is not enough space in mental institutions to accept inmates that are currently (and unhelpfully) held in prison, perhaps this could be solved by building more mental facilities instead of more prisons? It is perfectly possible to "put an end to prison", although we might decide that that is not a good path to follow...?
Pattern-chaser

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Amy Luman
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Amy Luman »

Sure, iI think we need them. It is politically correct to say “No”, but that’s just not realistic. I understand that the way prisoners are housed does not prevent reoffending. I don’t think that prisoners need to be brutalized, but I am not sure having a better life than mine is teaching them anything. I would also be beyond angry if one of those people who “don’t need to be in prison” hurt someone in my family.
Belindi
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Re: Does Society Need Prisons?

Post by Belindi »

Amy Luman wrote: Yesterday, 9:11 pm Sure, iI think we need them. It is politically correct to say “No”, but that’s just not realistic. I understand that the way prisoners are housed does not prevent reoffending. I don’t think that prisoners need to be brutalized, but I am not sure having a better life than mine is teaching them anything. I would also be beyond angry if one of those people who “don’t need to be in prison” hurt someone in my family.
If you could explain exactly what lifestyle would be "a better life than mine" you could be a prison reformer who would diminish the causes of crime and recidivism as never previously accomplished.

"A better life than mine" may be a life with more luxuries than your life contains, which is what you imply. But in fact a better life than yours or mine may be a life where learning is best provided for. Criminals learn better when properly housed,well enough fed, supplied with health care and teachers, and are free from prison violence and prison-generated crime such as drugs in prisons and lack of leadership from prison officers.
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