Philosophy Discussion Forums

AverageBozo wrote: ↑September 21st, 2021, 2:56 pm

Scott wrote: ↑February 28th, 2008, 4:09 am Does Society Need Prisons?
by Scott Hughes

Let's look at the different types of criminals that governments throw in prison.

Non-violent non-victimizers

Incidental Criminals

Mentally Sick People

You’ve overlooked career criminals and violent offenders, both of whom actually ought to be locked up.

As I read further, I found that violent offenders have indeed been included in the discussion.

If other types of punishment were utilized (other than jail) we would not need prison. For small crimes we could levy heavy fines etc. for violent offenders, we could like chop off a finger and increase this for repeated offenses. If you you kill someone, we should just kill you. We could logically do without the expense of inprisoning

Slavedevice wrote: ↑October 24th, 2021, 7:57 am If other types of punishment were utilized (other than jail) we would not need prison. For small crimes we could levy heavy fines etc. for violent offenders, we could like chop off a finger and increase this for repeated offenses. If you you kill someone, we should just kill you. We could logically do without the expense of inprisoning

And when you get it wrong? Recent DNA testing in the USA found many on death row to be innocent.

Well now you are changing to a different argument. The determination of guilt has nothing to do with how we punish. Different debate

Slavedevice wrote: ↑October 24th, 2021, 9:57 am Well now you are changing to a different argument. The determination of guilt has nothing to do with how we punish. Different debate

Oh, but the reliability of the methods we have for determining guilt have a great deal to do with what punishments we impose. If those methods are not reliable, then we're limited to punishments that are reversible and rectifiable.

Slavedevice wrote: ↑October 24th, 2021, 9:57 am Well now you are changing to a different argument. The determination of guilt has nothing to do with how we punish. Different debate

Agreed, but what if the people punished are innocent? In civilised countries, that kind of thing is considered quite inappropriate.

Slavedevice wrote: ↑October 24th, 2021, 7:57 am If other types of punishment were utilized (other than jail) we would not need prison. For small crimes we could levy heavy fines etc. for violent offenders, we could like chop off a finger and increase this for repeated offenses. If you you kill someone, we should just kill you. We could logically do without the expense of inprisoning

How is having a 9 fingered armed robber roaming the streets good for society?

If someone chopped your finger off for picking your nose, would you pick it again?

Slavedevice wrote: ↑October 24th, 2021, 8:44 pm If someone chopped your finger off for picking your nose, would you pick it again?

Yes, but not in view of the person who chopped off my finger.

Slavedevice wrote: ↑October 24th, 2021, 8:44 pm If someone chopped your finger off for picking your nose, would you pick it again?

To answer your question, I would kill the guy who maimed me.

More to the point, it is well understood that criminals generally don't consider the punishment when they commit crimes because they don't think they're going to get caught. If they considered getting caught, they wouldn't do the crime.

If you honestly thought you were going to get in a car accident the next time you drove would you drive anyway but buckle your seatbelt or would you call an Uber?

Society needs Prisons. The justice system needs improvement and the government needs improvement.

Memaw18 wrote: ↑November 16th, 2021, 11:22 am Society needs Prisons. The justice system needs improvement and the government needs improvement.

..and prisons "improve" the justice system and government?

Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑November 16th, 2021, 12:06 pm
..and prisons "improve" the justice system and government?

Prisons are an essential component of a justice system. The purposes of a criminal justice system are:

1. Protect citizens from criminal behavior, and

2. Secure justice for the victims of crime.

Prisons further the first purpose by removing criminals from the streets.

They don't improve governments, of course. Governments have to improve first, in order for any improvements to occur in criminal justice systems. Since the latter is unlikely, so is the likelihood of any improvements in the criminal justice system.

Is there really any alternative? What to do with superviolent criminals? The prison system can be minimized, but never supressed.

gontijoloyola wrote: ↑June 11th, 2022, 11:01 pm Is there really any alternative? What to do with superviolent criminals? The prison system can be minimized, but never supressed.

Criminals, super-violent or otherwise, can be imprisoned, executed, or released. There are other options too; prison remains one of them, but only one.