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Philosophy Discussion Forums
A Humans-Only Philosophy Club

The Philosophy Forums at OnlinePhilosophyClub.com aim to be an oasis of intelligent in-depth civil debate and discussion. Topics discussed extend far beyond philosophy and philosophers. What makes us a philosophy forum is more about our approach to the discussions than what subject is being debated. Common topics include but are absolutely not limited to neuroscience, psychology, sociology, cosmology, religion, political theory, ethics, and so much more.

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Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me

With which statement do you agree?

I want it to be illegal for a very poor teenager who was impregnated from being raped by an immediate family member to get an abortion even in the first week of pregnancy even if the doctors can and did detect the baby has severe genetic disorders and that the pregnancy if taken to term would have complications greatly risking the life of both the mother and would-be baby.
7
8%
I want it to be legal for a wealthy woman who is 5 days past her due date (of birth) to get an abortion even though doctors are sure that the healthy baby would be delivered safely and relatively easily otherwise and even though many safe, healthy, loving families are willing to adopt the would-be newborn immediately and even pay the woman significantly for that.
14
17%
I do not agree fully with either one of the above statements.
63
75%
#467430
Sy Borg wrote: August 27th, 2024, 7:22 pm Okay, let's ignore religion. Embryos have no sentience. No brain, no sentience. The cows, sheep, pigs, goats, chickens and even fish that we eat are sentient. In some cases, like pigs and goats, highly sentient. Even after nine weeks, the foetus's brain is rudimentary, still vastly less sentient that the animals we routinely slaughter and eat.

Abortion of embryos is completely ethical, if that is what the woman wants/needs. There will come a point where a foetus is viable, and at that point abortion ethics are less clear. Of course, flexibility and reason tend not to be much considered in today's divided (by design) world.

When is the it sentient? When the brain is formed? Because in that light, the human brain is not fully formed until the age (for most) of 25. I have pictures of my children in ultrasounds and they looked human, one even was sucking his thumb and the other kicked the ultrasound wand. And by 6 weeks the heartbeat can be heard. That's life.
Location: Oklahoma In It Together review: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... p?t=498982
#467673
Mounce574 wrote: August 31st, 2024, 5:57 pm
Sy Borg wrote: August 27th, 2024, 7:22 pm Okay, let's ignore religion. Embryos have no sentience. No brain, no sentience. The cows, sheep, pigs, goats, chickens and even fish that we eat are sentient. In some cases, like pigs and goats, highly sentient. Even after nine weeks, the foetus's brain is rudimentary, still vastly less sentient that the animals we routinely slaughter and eat.

Abortion of embryos is completely ethical, if that is what the woman wants/needs. There will come a point where a foetus is viable, and at that point abortion ethics are less clear. Of course, flexibility and reason tend not to be much considered in today's divided (by design) world.

When is the it sentient? When the brain is formed? Because in that light, the human brain is not fully formed until the age (for most) of 25. I have pictures of my children in ultrasounds and they looked human, one even was sucking his thumb and the other kicked the ultrasound wand. And by 6 weeks the heartbeat can be heard. That's life.
I bet those ultrasounds were not in the first trimester, since a foetus at that time has no thumbs to suck.

A heartbeat means nothing. An earthworm has between five and ten hearts. Are you arguing for earthworm rights?

Do you eat meat? If so, what kinds of meat? If so, does it concern you that the animals being eaten are often vastly more sentient than a newborn infant, let alone a foetus?

They are also life, yes?
#467729
Sy Borg wrote: May 10th, 2024, 6:39 pm Ah, but at the moment of fertilisation a human soul enters the edifice and lies dormant until developed.
Does it? I wonder if the soul — the person — is more of an emergent thing? I wonder if it happens gradually, starting at conception, and gradually emerging as development continues. In this perspective, the point at which a few scraps of genetic material becomes a person is not a point at all, it's a continuum. Personhood happens slowly and gradually, over time. It's more of a journey, I think, than a sudden flash of lightning.


Sy Borg wrote: August 27th, 2024, 7:22 pm Abortion of embryos is completely ethical, if that is what the woman wants/needs. There will come a point where a foetus is viable, and at that point abortion ethics are less clear.
Yes, personhood is not a sudden thing. 👆


Sy Borg wrote: August 27th, 2024, 7:22 pm Of course, flexibility and reason tend not to be much considered in today's divided (by design) world.
That's a welcome addition to the discussion... 🤔🤔
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus Location: England
#467755
Pattern-chaser wrote: September 10th, 2024, 7:26 am
Sy Borg wrote: May 10th, 2024, 6:39 pm Ah, but at the moment of fertilisation a human soul enters the edifice and lies dormant until developed.
Does it? I wonder if the soul — the person — is more of an emergent thing? I wonder if it happens gradually, starting at conception, and gradually emerging as development continues. In this perspective, the point at which a few scraps of genetic material becomes a person is not a point at all, it's a continuum. Personhood happens slowly and gradually, over time. It's more of a journey, I think, than a sudden flash of lightning.
Yes, a human soul enters as soon as the sperm and egg meet. This happens in all species - each embryo gets a human soul on fertilisation. Everyone gets a human soul!

It's obviously not great for the human soul if it happens to enter the blastocyst of a frog or a lizard, but you can't win 'em all.

Ribbet ribbet
#467766
The poll went into the darkest scenario in each option.
What ticks me is that I'm pro-abortion, because look at how dumb is this proposed scenario:
How likely is it for Option A to happen? Very Likely, I hear about some case of this nature every so often.
How likely is it for Option B to happen? Never??? Like how do you go 9 months, through all the suffering of growing a baby, most likely get emotionally attached to it in 9 months and then Kill it? Come on, this is on you, you had way too much time to do that. And getting payed a pretty penny to give it away? Basically you live a bit uncomfortable for 9 months then live happily ever after
#467778
Sy Borg wrote: May 10th, 2024, 6:39 pm Ah, but at the moment of fertilisation a human soul enters the edifice and lies dormant until developed.
Pattern-chaser wrote: September 10th, 2024, 7:26 am Does it? I wonder if the soul — the person — is more of an emergent thing? I wonder if it happens gradually, starting at conception, and gradually emerging as development continues. In this perspective, the point at which a few scraps of genetic material becomes a person is not a point at all, it's a continuum. Personhood happens slowly and gradually, over time. It's more of a journey, I think, than a sudden flash of lightning.
Sy Borg wrote: September 10th, 2024, 8:08 pm Yes, a human soul enters as soon as the sperm and egg meet. This happens in all species - each embryo gets a human soul on fertilisation. Everyone gets a human soul!

It's obviously not great for the human soul if it happens to enter the blastocyst of a frog or a lizard, but you can't win 'em all.

Ribbet ribbet
Now I'm confused. I seem to detect sense, mixed with sarcasm, seasoned with a little humour. But I can't separate them out into separate strands. 😐
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus Location: England
#467793
Pattern-chaser wrote: September 11th, 2024, 7:22 am
Sy Borg wrote: May 10th, 2024, 6:39 pm Ah, but at the moment of fertilisation a human soul enters the edifice and lies dormant until developed.
Pattern-chaser wrote: September 10th, 2024, 7:26 am Does it? I wonder if the soul — the person — is more of an emergent thing? I wonder if it happens gradually, starting at conception, and gradually emerging as development continues. In this perspective, the point at which a few scraps of genetic material becomes a person is not a point at all, it's a continuum. Personhood happens slowly and gradually, over time. It's more of a journey, I think, than a sudden flash of lightning.
Sy Borg wrote: September 10th, 2024, 8:08 pm Yes, a human soul enters as soon as the sperm and egg meet. This happens in all species - each embryo gets a human soul on fertilisation. Everyone gets a human soul!

It's obviously not great for the human soul if it happens to enter the blastocyst of a frog or a lizard, but you can't win 'em all.

Ribbet ribbet
Now I'm confused. I seem to detect sense, mixed with sarcasm, seasoned with a little humour. But I can't separate them out into separate strands. 😐
Oh, I'm being very, very serious. You see, every sperm is sacred and every sperm is great. If a sperm is wasted, Gods gets quite irate.
#467819
Pattern-chaser wrote: September 11th, 2024, 7:22 am Now I'm confused. I seem to detect sense, mixed with sarcasm, seasoned with a little humour. But I can't separate them out into separate strands. 😐
Sy Borg wrote: September 11th, 2024, 5:51 pm Oh, I'm being very, very serious. You see, every sperm is sacred and every sperm is great. If a sperm is wasted, Gods gets quite irate.
Ah, sarcasm then. Was there nothing more than that? 😢
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus Location: England
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