Gun Control and Mass Murder
- Sy Borg
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
By contrast, on the same day: "12 dead in California bar shooting: Live updates".
It's always strange when gun advocates claim that knives are just as bad. Try killing twelve people in a crowd with a knife.
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
It is not quite so simple. See the following on the “Revolt at Cincinnati”:They shifted to that emphasis in response to increasing threats to the 2nd Amendment from left-wing political organizations.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 7b1d8f0af2
But in 1977 things changed dramatically. A hard-line faction took over the NRA, forcing out the moderates and installed Harlon B. Carter, a convicted murderer (the conviction was later overturned on a technicality) and vigilante, as their leader. In a letter to the membership he wrote:The NRA didn’t like the 1968 law [Gun Control Act of 1968], viewing it as overly restrictive, but also didn’t see it as a slide toward tyranny. The top NRA officer, Franklin Orth, wrote in the association’s publication American Rifleman that “the measure as a whole appears to be one that the sportsmen of America can live with.”
GE:We can win it on a simple concept —No compromise. No gun legislation.
Whether or not that is true, and you have not provided any evidence that it is, they pull the lever in the voting booth.They're also aware that it is not NRA members pulling the homidical triggers.
Those members, following Carter, took an absolutist position that any gun legislation is a violation of their second amendment right to own guns.Those members do not want their constitutional rights violated to prevent violence they are not committing.
Let me rephrase it: wherever they point their finger it won’t be at guns. The problem is not people, the problem is people with guns. That does not mean that anyone with a gun is a problem, but that without the guns the crimes would not be so deadly and would not involve so many.Not everywhere. They point them at the persons actually committing the crimes. As the NRA says, guns do not commit crimes. People do.Gun advocates want to point their finger everywhere except the guns.
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
That is true. And if there were no automobiles there would be no traffic fatalities. If there were no electricity there would be no electrocutions. If there were no opiate drugs there would be no overdoses. Etc.
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- Sy Borg
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
I appreciate that significant gun regulation in the US is most unlikely and has to date been judged more potentially problematic than the status quo. However, the least you can do is agree to the very most obvious fact that more guns means more fatalities than other readily available means. Admitting that does not mean anything will change, or can change.
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
Good point. We should treat the purchase and use of guns as we do your examples. Driving a car legally requires passing a test and obtaining a licence. There are electrical codes and inspections. There are laws governing the prescribing and dispensing opiates.And if there were no automobiles there would be no traffic fatalities. If there were no electricity there would be no electrocutions. If there were no opiate drugs there would be no overdoses. Etc.
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
And despite those regulations there are still over 37,000 deaths annually from both drug overdoses and auto accidents, over 3 times as many as from gun homicides. Clearly the only solution is to ban them all.Fooloso4 wrote: ↑November 9th, 2018, 11:55 pm
Good point. We should treat the purchase and use of guns as we do your examples. Driving a car legally requires passing a test and obtaining a licence. There are electrical codes and inspections. There are laws governing the prescribing and dispensing opiates.
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
Yes, I do admit that. One thing that can change is scrapping the revolving-door "justice" system and removing criminals from the streets permanently. That would reduce the homicide rate by 40-50% instantly.Greta wrote: ↑November 9th, 2018, 9:58 pm
I appreciate that significant gun regulation in the US is most unlikely and has to date been judged more potentially problematic than the status quo. However, the least you can do is agree to the very most obvious fact that more guns means more fatalities than other readily available means. Admitting that does not mean anything will change, or can change.
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
The options are not banning them all or ignoring the problem. Gun advocates like to frame the argument as if any attempt to reduce gun deaths and injury by regulation means banning guns. Death and injury by drug overdose and auto accidents would be much higher without regulations.And despite those regulations there are still over 37,000 deaths annually from both drug overdoses and auto accidents, over 3 times as many as from gun homicides. Clearly the only solution is to ban them all.
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
https://youtu.be/QkXeMoBPSDk
In this segment Cohen disguises himself as an Israeli anti-terrorist expert and meets with members of the Republican Party.
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
- Sy Borg
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
Yes, they do. Because banning guns is the only regulation that will have any appreciable impact on the problem, and where that approach must eventually lead.
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Re: Gun Control and Mass Murder
You do not know that regulations will not have any appreciable impact. There is only one way to find out. If they do not work that does not meant that banning guns is an inevitable step. Perhaps the real fear is that they will work, which will lend support to the effectiveness of increased regulations. But that is not an inevitable step that will lead to an outright ban either. Slippery slope arguments are inherently weak.Because banning guns is the only regulation that will have any appreciable impact on the problem, and where that approach must eventually lead.
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