Lesbian Marriage vs. Elderly, Interracial Marriage

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Which option do you choose?

1. I want both lesbian marriage and elderly, interracial marriage to be allowed.
19
86%
2. I want both lesbian marriage and elderly, interracial marriage to be disallowed.
2
9%
3. I want one to be allowed but not the other (please explain and answer the questions in the OP).
1
5%
 
Total votes: 22

Lambert
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Re: Lesbian Marriage vs. Elderly, Interracial Marriage

Post by Lambert »

Newme wrote:Lambert,

You're suggesting homosexuals' mental illness is why all of society should cater to them in redefining the foundation of society (marriage)?

One is not born wanting sex with anyone, let alone sexual deviations. At birth, our brains are only 25% developed so we can adapt to environmental influences. Homosexuality is learned, not innate. It is a deviation or disorder, but that doesn't imply the right to legally force all of society to cater to their preferences.

It never ceases to amaze me how some otherwise intelligent people can be so deceived as to even ignore basic human anatomy and reproduction - maybe for fear of being called homophobe or bigot. Some people, especially those who've had their rights trampled on by homosexual fanatics, are beginning to see the danger of legally encouraging disorder, is heading.

Even many who have homosexual preferences don't want homosexual "marriage." I believe this is at least partially political desire to limit population growth - even if it means encouraging STDs, AIDs, etc.
Oh sorry, I am against homosexual behavior more than anyone here, and beyond that am I monogamous and totally disagree with males trying to convince females that they cannot live without sex. In fact I gave my daughter a 'pecker stick' when she turned 18 so she could beat them down with it. This may have been humor but the message was very clear, and I am convinced that premarital sex is totally wrong. I am also a firm believer in virtue that is innate to actually be sufficient towards this end, and from there policing is not my role in someone else's life.

And sorry, I am just pointing out that in our 'gender Identity' in our modern Gender Equal society is allowed to be cross with our sex identity as that was the purpose of the change we made, in which also the obvious is that many more are found to be that way and I blame our social norms for that. From here it can be argued that inasmuch as we as normal hetero are against their sexuality they are convinced that it is the norm for them, and we do not have the right to tell them that ours is natural and theirs is self learned.

I am actually the one who argues here that our sex is an illusion and our life is also an illusion and therefore belongs to the sacred and will vanish from us on it's own, and we already see this with our fertility problems these days that often is swept under the rug because it is a promising new industry that we need, and beyond that we find the excuse that the world is over populated anyway.

So it is not a mental illness but a hormonal disorder that is a society caused disease. Iow, the hormonal trigger is innate for them.
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Steve3007
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Re: Lesbian Marriage vs. Elderly, Interracial Marriage

Post by Steve3007 »

Newme:
Of course not all couples have children and marriage doesn't require reproduction, yet all children are produced by a man's sperm and a female's egg. So this man/woman union is the basis of all society and future society. So lawmakers saw this union as worthy of being legally supported and encouraged.
The point of the OP, and the particular choice of hypothetical couples that it contains, was to demonstrate that arguments about marriage being for the purpose of creating children, or arguments about sexually transmitted disease are not valid as general objections to homosexual marriage.

If we're going view marriage as an exemplar of how we think society ought to function, then I think its most important role is to allow couples of all types to make a formal declaration of lifelong commitment to each other. This means, among other things, a commitment to working as a team to tackle some of the most challenging aspects of life, such as (but not just) raising children.

Lambert:
In fact, I will take this one step further and call them victims of our own society and we owe them special care as abnormal and socially handicapped. Bottom line, in the same way that we as heterosexual did not create our self neither did they and therefore they need special care.
In what sense do you think that homosexual people are socially handicapped? What are they unable to do which infertile heterosexual people are able to do?
It is a societal dis-ease that is culture driven in the same way as the old "opposite sex" society was designed to keep orientation problems to a minimum. The obvious here is that there are many more cross identity problems these days and that already proves that we collectively are responsible for them (and also all kind of other social problem including those that you suggest).
It has already been pointed out that homosexuality has existed in all recorded human societies and in many other animal species. So what leads you to believe that it is society-specific? Is it the number "gay pride" parades and other similar open declarations? Note: They have no gay pride parades or other open displays of homosexuality in the parts of Syria controlled by ISIS/ISIL/IS/Daesh. Would you conclude from this that homosexuality is not present there? Do you think that the increased visibility of explicitly declared homosexuality in western societies is a symptom of increased numbers of homosexual people? Or is it just that gay people in these countries can now live in reasonable safety from being thrown off the top of tall buildings, or otherwise persecuted?

Newme:
It is a deviation or disorder, but that doesn't imply the right to legally force all of society to cater to their preferences.
Nobody is being forced to do anything. How does a gay couple wishing to formally declare a lifelong commitment to each other harm the rest of society or place any obligation on the rest of society?
Even many who have homosexual preferences don't want homosexual "marriage." I believe this is at least partially political desire to limit population growth - even if it means encouraging STDs, AIDs, etc.
How would encouraging lifelong monogamous relationships (AKA marriage) encourage an increase in the prevalence of STDs?

Okisites:
Generally my opposition of homosexual comes from that I do not find any factor that can clearly identify an individual to be homosexual, in which case it can even confuse any heterosexual to be homosexual, which in turn can lead to increase in percentage of homosexuals.
The thing that generally identifies people as homosexual is when they say: "I feel attracted to my own sex and not to the opposite sex." The converse is what identifies heterosexual people. I'm not aware of any evidence that allowing people to self-declare their sexuality without fear of persecution leads to a higher incidence of homosexuality. Of course, it does lead to a higher incidence of open homosexuality. In the country where I live, before homosexuality was legalized in 1967, the evidence seems to suggest there were just as many gay people as there are now. But up to as recently as the 1980's most hid or obfuscated their sexuality.

Okisites:
It should not be like, if I say I am homosexual despite looking like a heterosexual, and you have to believe me, just because I say so.
What, in your opinion, does a heterosexual person look like?!?
Even men with steel hearts love to see a dog on the pitch.
Nerfgnat
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Joined: March 7th, 2015, 2:13 am

Re: Lesbian Marriage vs. Elderly, Interracial Marriage

Post by Nerfgnat »

Marriage is choice of one with one. Don't like gay marriage, don't marry gay, that preserves each ones choice. Do people marry for the state certificate? Do people marry for a sense of belonging to tradition? Well, I thought we marry for the one person. I care less if somebody wants a marriage with a sexy looking piece of obsidian rock gathered while visiting Hawaii. This is choice, my choice is mine, your choice is yours. Worry about our own marriage, lets protect choice of everyone. Easy when we agree, harder when we don't. I think we should focus on preserving freedom of action as well of speech. Don't like alternative marriages, don't enter into an alternative marriage, but don't limit others
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Sy Borg
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Re: Lesbian Marriage vs. Elderly, Interracial Marriage

Post by Sy Borg »

Replacing the word "homosexual" with the word "black" in this thread provides clarity.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated—Gandhi.
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Lagayscienza
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Re: Lesbian Marriage vs. Elderly, Interracial Marriage

Post by Lagayscienza »

It's hard to understand how views like those of Okisites have persisted in the West in light of what is now well known about human sexuality. Nothing that Okisites has said on this topic even vaguely resembles a plausible argument for not allowing lesbian marriage.

I still don't understand what all the fuss is about. How does it affect anyone else if two women or an elderly interracial man and woman get married? What harm could it possibly do to anyone else? Just because some people might object to it on religious grounds is irrelevant. In western democracies there is separation of church and state, thank goodness, and it is the legislature and the courts who make and interpret the laws. Not the church. People who object to things like this on such grounds need to be honest and state that it is a religious objection they have instead of trying to dress it up in a rational argument that they are obviously incapable of sustaining. Attempting to do so usually, as in Okistes case, ends in incoherence. It is always better to be honest straight up, come clean on religious objections, instead of tying oneself in knots.
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Belinda
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Re: Lesbian Marriage vs. Elderly, Interracial Marriage

Post by Belinda »

What all the taboos, religious laws, and civil laws are about is protecting the family as the basic unit within a society.

This is a time of upheaval when some people react against changes to family structure, usually because of taboos. Taboos often go by the name of 'prejudices'.

So the proper question is 'how should the family group be structured to benefit society ?'
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Scott
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Re: Lesbian Marriage vs. Elderly, Interracial Marriage

Post by Scott »

[Moderator Note: Off-topic posts split into separate closed topic. Please make sure all posts are on-topic. This topic is NOT for discussing homosexuality or homophobia in general. This topic is only for discussing the topics in the OP. This topic is Lesbian Marriage vs. Elderly, Interracial Marriage.]
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

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I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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