Is abortion murder?

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Londoner
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by Londoner »

cooltodd109 wrote:
Is abortion murder? Why or why not?
As others have said, it is not murder i.e unlawful killing, because it is not unlawful.

But it certainly is killing. So has society a prohibition on killing? Certainly not, we kill fellow humans all the time. Do we consider the preservation of life a priority? No - in many places in the world people die prematurely from causes that the rest of the world could alleviate. Some people have some concerns about this, but generally we do not feel obliged to do anything that would reduce our own living standards to stop this.

So those who oppose abortion need to come up with a better reason than that it involves killing. (Buddhist monks etc. excepted)
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TheHonestOne
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by TheHonestOne »

Maybe that was a bad example. I'll give you that. So let me say this. An "embryo" as you so referred to it, is a seed that grows. That is as simple as a tree. I am guessing you are saying that an embryo is not a human being (yet) because it has no developed brain and thought process or even feelings. Well, just in case you don't know there was a baby named Nicholas Coke. He is two years young now I believe and he does not have a brain either. He was born with only a brain stem. And yes that is because he has a medical condition but embryos do not have brains and will never get t grow them if abortion occurs. And yes that is a medical circumstance. So if the fetus can be "destroyed" because it is not a human, then so can Nicholas, right? Wrong! Very WRONG! And besides the question is "Is abortion murder?" So are you saying that only humans can be murdered. Because that is also wrong. Any living thing can be murdered. And before you say it, yes a fetus is considered "living." In fact there was actually a law case where a man sued his wife for having an abortion. She first beat herself in the stomach to try and force a miscarriage and later had an abortion. Now she said that the abortion was legal because she was in the first trimester. However, during the first trimester of normal pregnancies even facial features begin to appear. So again I restate my claim, yes. In my eyes abortion is murder.
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Misty
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by Misty »

cooltodd109 wrote:Abortion is a very divisive issue. It pushes people to extreme and decisive viewpoints. I'm still on the fence.

What do you think about abortion? Why do you think that why?

Is abortion murder? Why or why not?

There are "spontaneous" abortions and "induced" abortions, either way it is "life" that dies.
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TheHonestOne
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by TheHonestOne »

[quote=that is a false comparison...Critical Thinking"TheHonestOne"]Maybe that was a bad example. I'll give you that. So let me say this. An "embryo" as you so referred to it, is a seed that grows. That is as simple as a tree. I am guessing you are saying that an embryo is not a human being (yet) because it has no developed brain and thought process or even feelings. Well, just in case you don't know there was a baby named Nicholas Coke. He is two years young now I believe and he does not have a brain either. He was born with only a brain stem. And yes that is because he has a medical condition but embryos do not have brains and will never get t grow them if abortion occurs. And yes that is a medical circumstance. So if the fetus can be "destroyed" because it is not a human, then so can Nicholas, right? Wrong! Very WRONG! And besides the question is "Is abortion murder?" So are you saying that only humans can be murdered. Because that is also wrong. Any living thing can be murdered. And before you say it, yes a fetus is considered "living." In fact there was actually a law case where a man sued his wife for having an abortion. She first beat herself in the stomach to try and force a miscarriage and later had an abortion. Now she said that the abortion was legal because she was in the first trimester. However, during the first trimester of normal pregnancies even facial features begin to appear. So again I restate my claim, yes. In my eyes abortion is murder.[/quote]


-- Updated July 25th, 2013, 5:26 pm to add the following --

[quote=that is a false comparison..."Critical Thinking"]Maybe that was a bad example. I'll give you that. So let me say this. An "embryo" as you so referred to it, is a seed that grows. That is as simple as a tree. I am guessing you are saying that an embryo is not a human being (yet) because it has no developed brain and thought process or even feelings. Well, just in case you don't know there was a baby named Nicholas Coke. He is two years young now I believe and he does not have a brain either. He was born with only a brain stem. And yes that is because he has a medical condition but embryos do not have brains and will never get t grow them if abortion occurs. And yes that is a medical circumstance. So if the fetus can be "destroyed" because it is not a human, then so can Nicholas, right? Wrong! Very WRONG! And besides the question is "Is abortion murder?" So are you saying that only humans can be murdered. Because that is also wrong. Any living thing can be murdered. And before you say it, yes a fetus is considered "living." In fact there was actually a law case where a man sued his wife for having an abortion. She first beat herself in the stomach to try and force a miscarriage and later had an abortion. Now she said that the abortion was legal because she was in the first trimester. However, during the first trimester of normal pregnancies even facial features begin to appear. So again I restate my claim, yes. In my eyes abortion is murder.[/quote]
[/quote]
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Thinking critical
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by Thinking critical »

Nicholas Coke was still a human being, he's dead now, I never said a something with no brain is not a human I said an embryo is nothing more than cells and membrane, they have no cortex or central nervous system, they are a fertilized egg, nothing more. Murder is a legal term which applies to human beings only, other species can be killed, although some still chose to call it murder. Embryos are living I agree, so are flies and any all other bugs yet people don't have a problem killing them and the raw truth is that flies consist of a much more complex cellular network than a human embryo, the pain and suffering caused to the fly by killing it can be experienced by the fly where as in the termination of an embryo no pain is experienced at all. The question you need to ask yourself is why do you think it's wrong for woman to have abortions, why do you feel it's murder? Why are you projecting empathy onto potential life, when no suffering will occur?
This cocky little cognitive contortionist will straighten you right out
HalfWit
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by HalfWit »

In a famous case from 2002, Scott Peterson was convicted of first degree murder for killing his wife Laci; and also convicted of second degree murder for killing their unborn son Conner. Had Laci chosen to abort Conner in pro-choice California, that would have been perfectly legal. What kind of sense does that make?
Noob019
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by Noob019 »

If abortion is murder then using condoms is murder too.
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Misty
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by Misty »

HalfWit wrote:In a famous case from 2002, Scott Peterson was convicted of first degree murder for killing his wife Laci; and also convicted of second degree murder for killing their unborn son Conner. Had Laci chosen to abort Conner in pro-choice California, that would have been perfectly legal. What kind of sense does that make?
Laci would have acted as having control over her own body and Scott acted as a separate entity imposing death to someone outside himself.

-- Updated Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:36 am to add the following --
Noob019 wrote:If abortion is murder then using condoms is murder too.
The condom is preventing sperm and egg union so it would not be murder.
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Noob019
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by Noob019 »

The sperm is a living organism and by putting a condom you prevent it from living and growing as much as possible. Same thing happens to the embryo.
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Misty
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by Misty »

Noob019 wrote:The sperm is a living organism and by putting a condom you prevent it from living and growing as much as possible. Same thing happens to the embryo.

The sperm and egg are designed to die if not united, sex releases millions of sperm that spill out to their death, it is natural. The embryro, now a unique and one of a kind, if undisturbed is designed to grow and live about 80 yrs. give or take. (if human embryo) The sperm alone, the egg alone has a life cycle of its own unless united.
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

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Noob019
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by Noob019 »

That doesn't change the fact that you prevent them from uniting. If undisturbed it will become an embryo and therefore live 80 years but you don't let it happen so it dies when it had the potential to live for so long.
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Misty
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by Misty »

Noob019 wrote:That doesn't change the fact that you prevent them from uniting. If undisturbed it will become an embryo and therefore live 80 years but you don't let it happen so it dies when it had the potential to live for so long.
Hello Noob)19,

There are millions of sperm and only 1 gets to fertilize the egg, so millions per sexual encounter die. The embryo is the life form designed for further life. Killing the embryo is much different then preventing union.

Misty
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
Noob019
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by Noob019 »

Killing that 1 sperm that will fertilize the egg is like killing the embryo. When it has the potential to grow even more be it embryo or sperm you are killing a potential human life. So i think if abortion is bad (which I don't think it is) then using condoms is equally bad.
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Misty
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by Misty »

Thinking critical wrote:Nicholas Coke was still a human being, he's dead now, I never said a something with no brain is not a human I said an embryo is nothing more than cells and membrane, they have no cortex or central nervous system, they are a fertilized egg, nothing more. Murder is a legal term which applies to human beings only, other species can be killed, although some still chose to call it murder. Embryos are living I agree, so are flies and any all other bugs yet people don't have a problem killing them and the raw truth is that flies consist of a much more complex cellular network than a human embryo, the pain and suffering caused to the fly by killing it can be experienced by the fly where as in the termination of an embryo no pain is experienced at all. The question you need to ask yourself is why do you think it's wrong for woman to have abortions, why do you feel it's murder? Why are you projecting empathy onto potential life, when no suffering will occur?
Hello TC,

The embryo (fertilized egg) has every detail of the unique person the embryo is to grow into. It does have a cortex and a central nervous system, etc., just not visible to the naked eye, all the parts are there, developing. You will grow (develop) into an old man if your life is not disturbed. Each embryo is unique, just like you when in the embryonic stage of life.

Misty
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
Londoner
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Re: Is abortion murder?

Post by Londoner »

The embryo (fertilized egg) has every detail of the unique person the embryo is to grow into. It does have a cortex and a central nervous system, etc., just not visible to the naked eye, all the parts are there, developing. You will grow (develop) into an old man if your life is not disturbed.


The cortex etc. will potentially develop, but that is not the same as being there now, just as the fact that I may grow into an old man does not mean I am an old man now. We do not usually treat unrealised futures as things which exist now.

After all, there is also an extremely strong possibility that sooner or later we will all die! Does it follow that this means we are as good as dead now, so it doesn't matter if somebody kills us?
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