I read both comments, and thank you for the elaboration. Life and existence, and humans are the same thing in our own eyes, because we look at all these relative to ourselves. It is hard for us to think about a different life or an existence since we have seen only a single universe, a single form of life, etc. What of there are many? What of the multiverse theory is true? What if aliens really exist? Then all these concepts will have meanings and existences more than one.GrayArea wrote: ↑May 17th, 2022, 10:37 pmWell, I simply meant that life equals ourselves. Just two different words for the same concept. There is no other complex causality or anything. Also, I've used the edit tool to extend my previous reply, so feel free to check that one out as well.Sushan wrote: ↑May 17th, 2022, 10:33 pmI am sorry but I did not get you. Can you please elaborate on that. Thank youGrayArea wrote: ↑May 17th, 2022, 10:31 pmMy view is that if life is the jar, we are.Sushan wrote: ↑May 17th, 2022, 10:25 pm
We expect our lives to go on in a certain way. When everything goes as per our liking, we say it is good, and the life becomes benevolent. If life is the 'jar', then where are ourselves located? Is it within the jar, totally outside the jar, or some other existence?
As per the universe, yes, it does not matter whether we exist or not for the existence of the universe. But humans are capable of destroying anything, and I am doubtful whether the universe can be excluded from that fate.
Life is benevolent, do you agree?
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
There are many possibilities for a single event. But chance is not the only determining factor in our lives. Otherwise there will not be any use in putting effort in any field. It is good to keep in mind that sometimes failure is inevitable even without our fault. It will help us to bear the pain. But if you wait till 6 rolls on your dice without any effort to get it, there is a high chance that you will never get it. Many billionaires are hard workers, while only a handful of billionaires have become so by winning a lottery.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 19th, 2022, 11:11 amLife happens; the universe changes and progresses. To us, at least, it is a near-infinite series of dice rolls. Is it rational, or wise, to hope for all 6s and no 1s? Are we really asking for a world where only 6s are rolled? Are we that naive? Should we not just accept that life will throw all the numbers at us, from 1 to 6? After all, whether we accept it or not, it will happen. So will we accept what is, or will we fight it, pointlessly and unsuccessfully? The Tao is the path; follow it, and enjoy the journey.
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 19th, 2022, 11:11 am Life happens; the universe changes and progresses. To us, at least, it is a near-infinite series of dice rolls. Is it rational, or wise, to hope for all 6s and no 1s? Are we really asking for a world where only 6s are rolled? Are we that naive? Should we not just accept that life will throw all the numbers at us, from 1 to 6? After all, whether we accept it or not, it will happen. So will we accept what is, or will we fight it, pointlessly and unsuccessfully? The Tao is the path; follow it, and enjoy the journey.
Yes, of course. Our world is unpredictable and uncertain. But it is what we make of this unpredictability and uncertainty that makes the difference (to us!), and it is the area where we get to choose, not just to accept what the universe gives us. Acceptance and wholesome opportunism is the optimum path, it seems. But there is no point at all in pretence. For example, we might pretend (i.e., tell ourselves) that life is benevolent, but it is not so, even though if we repeat it often enough we might convince ourselves… Life isn't malevolent, either. It is life, in all its splendour and unpredictable wonder.
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
Not at all! These kind of pollyannish views are written by the secular division of modern evangelists. This kind of "Chicken Soup for the Soul" variety of writing is a dime a dozen - though some are better than others. The main idea here is to enhance oneself with royalties by a perpetual repeat of the same BS hoping people will buy it...which they do.Sushan wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 10:18 pm This topic is about the May 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Maestro Monologue: Discover your Genius, Defeat your intruder, Design your destiny by Rob White
(Location 157 - Kindle version)Life is benevolent. Life never blinks. Life is always responding to what you think.
This author implies that life always watch upon us and responds to what we think. So, as per my understanding, then the life should go on as we wish. But life is not like that. It has many ups, which we like, and many downs, which we do not like or wish to have.
Can we really say life is benevolent?
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
Very true, there are no shortage of the gullible willing to swallow feel-good stories, be they pop psychology or Iron age mythology.Tegularius wrote: ↑May 29th, 2022, 9:43 pmNot at all! These kind of pollyannish views are written by the secular division of modern evangelists. This kind of "Chicken Soup for the Soul" variety of writing is a dime a dozen - though some are better than others. The main idea here is to enhance oneself with royalties by a perpetual repeat of the same BS hoping people will buy it...which they do.Sushan wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 10:18 pm This topic is about the May 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Maestro Monologue: Discover your Genius, Defeat your intruder, Design your destiny by Rob White
(Location 157 - Kindle version)Life is benevolent. Life never blinks. Life is always responding to what you think.
This author implies that life always watch upon us and responds to what we think. So, as per my understanding, then the life should go on as we wish. But life is not like that. It has many ups, which we like, and many downs, which we do not like or wish to have.
Can we really say life is benevolent?
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
Your perspective on the balance between effort and acceptance is enlightening. While I understand the appeal of seeing life as an unpredictable series of events, our experiences seem to suggest a mix of both agency and chance. I agree that merely pretending life is one way or another is not productive. But what if the concept of benevolence is not about life handing us only favorable outcomes but rather about life offering us opportunities for growth, understanding, and resilience through every situation? This might not fit the conventional definition of benevolence, but could it be a more holistic view? What are your thoughts on this interpretation?Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 22nd, 2022, 9:33 amPattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 19th, 2022, 11:11 am Life happens; the universe changes and progresses. To us, at least, it is a near-infinite series of dice rolls. Is it rational, or wise, to hope for all 6s and no 1s? Are we really asking for a world where only 6s are rolled? Are we that naive? Should we not just accept that life will throw all the numbers at us, from 1 to 6? After all, whether we accept it or not, it will happen. So will we accept what is, or will we fight it, pointlessly and unsuccessfully? The Tao is the path; follow it, and enjoy the journey.Yes, of course. Our world is unpredictable and uncertain. But it is what we make of this unpredictability and uncertainty that makes the difference (to us!), and it is the area where we get to choose, not just to accept what the universe gives us. Acceptance and wholesome opportunism is the optimum path, it seems. But there is no point at all in pretence. For example, we might pretend (i.e., tell ourselves) that life is benevolent, but it is not so, even though if we repeat it often enough we might convince ourselves… Life isn't malevolent, either. It is life, in all its splendour and unpredictable wonder.
– William James
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
While I respect your perspective on the commercial aspects of certain motivational and self-help genres, let's not stray from the philosophical inquiry at hand. Benevolence in life is a nuanced topic. Whether life is benevolent or not might depend on one's experiences, worldview, and individual circumstances. Some might argue that hardships and challenges mold us into stronger, more resilient individuals, implying a form of benevolence in disguise. Can we perhaps discuss the nature of benevolence and whether it is intrinsic to life or merely our perception of events? How do we define and recognize genuine benevolence in the grand scheme of things?Tegularius wrote: ↑May 29th, 2022, 9:43 pmNot at all! These kind of pollyannish views are written by the secular division of modern evangelists. This kind of "Chicken Soup for the Soul" variety of writing is a dime a dozen - though some are better than others. The main idea here is to enhance oneself with royalties by a perpetual repeat of the same BS hoping people will buy it...which they do.Sushan wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 10:18 pm This topic is about the May 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Maestro Monologue: Discover your Genius, Defeat your intruder, Design your destiny by Rob White
(Location 157 - Kindle version)Life is benevolent. Life never blinks. Life is always responding to what you think.
This author implies that life always watch upon us and responds to what we think. So, as per my understanding, then the life should go on as we wish. But life is not like that. It has many ups, which we like, and many downs, which we do not like or wish to have.
Can we really say life is benevolent?
– William James
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
While it's easy to dismiss popular literature or ideas as mere commercial endeavors, there is a deeper philosophical question at hand about the nature of life. Many ancient and modern philosophers, regardless of any monetary motives, have grappled with the idea of life's inherent benevolence or malevolence. I agree that life doesn't always conform to our wishes, which can challenge the notion of benevolence. However, isn't it also possible that benevolence might not always manifest in ways we readily understand or desire? Perhaps the benevolence of life is in the opportunities it presents, both good and bad, for growth, learning, and understanding.LuckyR wrote: ↑May 30th, 2022, 3:12 amVery true, there are no shortage of the gullible willing to swallow feel-good stories, be they pop psychology or Iron age mythology.Tegularius wrote: ↑May 29th, 2022, 9:43 pmNot at all! These kind of pollyannish views are written by the secular division of modern evangelists. This kind of "Chicken Soup for the Soul" variety of writing is a dime a dozen - though some are better than others. The main idea here is to enhance oneself with royalties by a perpetual repeat of the same BS hoping people will buy it...which they do.Sushan wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2022, 10:18 pm This topic is about the May 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Maestro Monologue: Discover your Genius, Defeat your intruder, Design your destiny by Rob White
(Location 157 - Kindle version)Life is benevolent. Life never blinks. Life is always responding to what you think.
This author implies that life always watch upon us and responds to what we think. So, as per my understanding, then the life should go on as we wish. But life is not like that. It has many ups, which we like, and many downs, which we do not like or wish to have.
Can we really say life is benevolent?
– William James
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 22nd, 2022, 9:33 am Our world is unpredictable and uncertain. But it is what we make of this unpredictability and uncertainty that makes the difference (to us!), and it is the area where we get to choose, not just to accept what the universe gives us. Acceptance and wholesome opportunism is the optimum path, it seems. But there is no point at all in pretence. For example, we might pretend (i.e., tell ourselves) that life is benevolent, but it is not so, even though if we repeat it often enough we might convince ourselves… Life isn't malevolent, either. It is life, in all its splendour and unpredictable wonder.
I think life is uncertain and unpredictable, and I also agree that "our experiences seem to suggest a mix of both agency and chance". All of this is part of 'life's rich tapestry', I think. The holistic view is, IMO, the only sustainable way of looking at Life, the Universe, and Everything. And we are all little parts of that Life; we react to what Life throws at us, but we are proactive too. That's what all living things do, I think, within the context of the Whole.Sushan wrote: ↑September 8th, 2023, 2:51 am Your perspective on the balance between effort and acceptance is enlightening. While I understand the appeal of seeing life as an unpredictable series of events, our experiences seem to suggest a mix of both agency and chance. I agree that merely pretending life is one way or another is not productive. But what if the concept of benevolence is not about life handing us only favorable outcomes but rather about life offering us opportunities for growth, understanding, and resilience through every situation? This might not fit the conventional definition of benevolence, but could it be a more holistic view? What are your thoughts on this interpretation?
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
In the grand scheme of things, when has nature ever been benevolent? Can the word even be applied based on the indifferent operations of nature which itself has no knowledge of what the outcome of it effects may be? Beginning with an incipient universe, benevolence can never be factored into anything nature creates or handicapped by any feelings humans may have. The question simply resolves to a projection which subsequently comes to life as a philosophic problem or speculation which has no counterpart in the grand scheme of things.
The question becomes superfluous when adjusted to reality.
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
A concise and correct summary.Tegularius wrote: ↑September 9th, 2023, 12:39 am In the grand scheme of things, when has nature ever been benevolent? Can the word even be applied based on the indifferent operations of nature which itself has no knowledge of what the outcome of it effects may be? Beginning with an incipient universe, benevolence can never be factored into anything nature creates or handicapped by any feelings humans may have. The question simply resolves to a projection which subsequently comes to life as a philosophic problem or speculation which has no counterpart in the grand scheme of things.
The question becomes superfluous when adjusted to reality.
If we start to mistake our fantasies for the real world, we are in trouble. And the title of this topic does seem to stray in that direction...?
Apples are intellectuals, do you agree?
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
Absolutely, and I appreciate your highlighting the duality of our nature - being both reactive and proactive within the larger framework of existence. Perhaps the real benevolence of life lies not in a skewed balance of favorable versus unfavorable events, but in the inherent potential for growth, adaptability, and understanding that life's experiences afford us. In this light, even challenges can be seen as benevolent opportunities in disguise, pushing us towards evolution and deeper comprehension. With this perspective, the idea of life's benevolence transcends simplistic categorizations of 'good' or 'bad' and delves into the realm of purpose, potential, and personal growth. Would you agree?Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑September 8th, 2023, 9:04 amPattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 22nd, 2022, 9:33 am Our world is unpredictable and uncertain. But it is what we make of this unpredictability and uncertainty that makes the difference (to us!), and it is the area where we get to choose, not just to accept what the universe gives us. Acceptance and wholesome opportunism is the optimum path, it seems. But there is no point at all in pretence. For example, we might pretend (i.e., tell ourselves) that life is benevolent, but it is not so, even though if we repeat it often enough we might convince ourselves… Life isn't malevolent, either. It is life, in all its splendour and unpredictable wonder.I think life is uncertain and unpredictable, and I also agree that "our experiences seem to suggest a mix of both agency and chance". All of this is part of 'life's rich tapestry', I think. The holistic view is, IMO, the only sustainable way of looking at Life, the Universe, and Everything. And we are all little parts of that Life; we react to what Life throws at us, but we are proactive too. That's what all living things do, I think, within the context of the Whole.Sushan wrote: ↑September 8th, 2023, 2:51 am Your perspective on the balance between effort and acceptance is enlightening. While I understand the appeal of seeing life as an unpredictable series of events, our experiences seem to suggest a mix of both agency and chance. I agree that merely pretending life is one way or another is not productive. But what if the concept of benevolence is not about life handing us only favorable outcomes but rather about life offering us opportunities for growth, understanding, and resilience through every situation? This might not fit the conventional definition of benevolence, but could it be a more holistic view? What are your thoughts on this interpretation?
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
That's an intriguing viewpoint, suggesting that nature operates with an inherent indifference and any benevolence we perceive is a human construct. Indeed, nature, in its vastness, operates on principles of cause and effect, survival and adaptation, without any discernible favoritism or intent. But let's consider human consciousness and our unique ability to perceive, interpret, and give meaning to our experiences. Could it be that our very capability to conceptualize benevolence, even if it's not a tangible quality of the universe, lends value to the discussion? While nature might not have an inherent moral compass, humans do, and this morality shapes our experiences and interpretations. If life offers us a canvas, and we, through our consciousness, paint it with hues of benevolence or malevolence based on our perspectives, does that not make the concept worthy of philosophical exploration, irrespective of nature's indifference?Tegularius wrote: ↑September 9th, 2023, 12:39 amIn the grand scheme of things, when has nature ever been benevolent? Can the word even be applied based on the indifferent operations of nature which itself has no knowledge of what the outcome of it effects may be? Beginning with an incipient universe, benevolence can never be factored into anything nature creates or handicapped by any feelings humans may have. The question simply resolves to a projection which subsequently comes to life as a philosophic problem or speculation which has no counterpart in the grand scheme of things.
The question becomes superfluous when adjusted to reality.
– William James
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
I understand your perspective, and it's essential to differentiate between our interpretations and objective reality. However, might it be that our human experience and the meaning we derive from events can in themselves shape our perception of benevolence? Even if the universe operates independently of our emotions, the lessons, growth, and understanding we gain could be seen as benevolent in the context of our personal narratives. Would you say that it's our capacity for interpretation that gives weight to concepts like benevolence?Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑September 9th, 2023, 6:51 amA concise and correct summary.Tegularius wrote: ↑September 9th, 2023, 12:39 am In the grand scheme of things, when has nature ever been benevolent? Can the word even be applied based on the indifferent operations of nature which itself has no knowledge of what the outcome of it effects may be? Beginning with an incipient universe, benevolence can never be factored into anything nature creates or handicapped by any feelings humans may have. The question simply resolves to a projection which subsequently comes to life as a philosophic problem or speculation which has no counterpart in the grand scheme of things.
The question becomes superfluous when adjusted to reality.
If we start to mistake our fantasies for the real world, we are in trouble. And the title of this topic does seem to stray in that direction...?
Apples are intellectuals, do you agree?
– William James
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Re: Life is benevolent, do you agree?
I can't regard it as intriguing or original. It simply amounts to a default where we and all else are nothing more than one event in time's domain however long or short its presence may be.
Very much so but only as a philosophic talking point on whether life, per se, is benevolent. The OP pertains to life, by inference all life, not merely human. From that perspective, benevolent is the one quality least applicable. Life could never be so infinitely variable or exist at all if nature were in any way benevolent. If it sometimes appears so, it's only as a necessary function within a process impervious to any kind of compassion or altruism, i.e., subject to the indifferent laws which allow existence to happen.
What you say is true to a point! Consciousness can never be an entity whose presentation can be depicted on a white canvass of indifference or process what it perceives to be real as if it were some unmodulated carrier wave. Consciousness is itself a reality whose function is to modify the REALITY in which it's contained.
One of the main defects of the human race - a very dangerous one - is that illusions often become our realities. In the extreme it may also manifest as toxic when perceptions are morphed into severe misconceptions with a limited ability to correct themselves. It's then that we need to rebalance our existence within an all-encompassing structure which has no affinity to how we think, imagine or what desire; in essence, which treats our existence as a spot or blemish that, as Shelley put it, stains the white radiance of eternity.
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023