Can any character be changed at any point?

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Sushan
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Can any character be changed at any point?

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This topic is about the May 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Maestro Monologue: Discover your Genius, Defeat your intruder, Design your destiny by Rob White


There is no coal of character so dead that it won’t glow and flame if but slightly turned
-Neville Goddard-


Coal may appear as totally dead, but when slightly turned it may show its still glowing side, and when it catches oxygen it will burn again. Neville Goddard compares this with human character and character qualities. As per him anyone can be turned into a good or better one if correct interventions are applied.

But is this fully applicable to anyone at any point? There are some coal that are totally dead which cannot be lit by turning to any side. Similarly, I think there are people who cannot be salvaged or reluctant to any change. At the same time there are things like personalities and personality disorders. Up to what extent Neville Goddard is correct in context of all these?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

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JackDaydream
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Re: Can any character be changed at any point?

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Sushan wrote: May 8th, 2022, 10:13 pm This topic is about the May 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Maestro Monologue: Discover your Genius, Defeat your intruder, Design your destiny by Rob White


There is no coal of character so dead that it won’t glow and flame if but slightly turned
-Neville Goddard-


Coal may appear as totally dead, but when slightly turned it may show its still glowing side, and when it catches oxygen it will burn again. Neville Goddard compares this with human character and character qualities. As per him anyone can be turned into a good or better one if correct interventions are applied.

But is this fully applicable to anyone at any point? There are some coal that are totally dead which cannot be lit by turning to any side. Similarly, I think there are people who cannot be salvaged or reluctant to any change. At the same time there are things like personalities and personality disorders. Up to what extent Neville Goddard is correct in context of all these?
Part of the issue about changing another is whether a person wishes to change. Even with people who wish to change it is not simple.

With the people who don't wish to change it also depends on what it is that needs to be altered. In the past, there were attempts to alter aspects such as sexual orientation, often through behaviour modification. That had a lot of negative effects and, now is not really used. Change is often about therapy, in particular for those diagnosed with personality disorders, especially antisocial personality, which is the diagnosis often given to some people who commit violent crimes. There may be a certain amount who are wishing to change but it depends on the underlying features, especially whether there is basic regard for others.

In those who wish to change, fixed behaviour patterns may be a problem. For example, a person who drinks too much alcohol may wish to stop but be lacking in ability to alter this, especially if drinking is an established repertoire and basic coping mechanism. Addictions are one aspect which people may seek to change but they may wish to change many others, like the basic tendency towards depression and associated negativity. But, it is not easy because these go deep, going back to childhood and the combination of nature and nurture.

Based on the idea of changing a person because there is an 'official' psychiatric recognition that there is a need to change and individuals own wish to change, I would argue that Goddard's comparison with coal is rather restive. Coal lacks reflective consciousness and is physical matter. The idea of changing coal is meant to be a kind of metaphor perhaps, but it may not be a particularly good one because the coal is purely physical. Changing minds may be a lot more complicated because the mind goes much deeper, even by those who see behaviour as programmed.
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Re: Can any character be changed at any point?

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Sushan wrote: May 8th, 2022, 10:13 pm Coal may appear as totally dead, but when slightly turned it may show its still glowing side, and when it catches oxygen it will burn again. Neville Goddard compares this with human character and character qualities. As per him anyone can be turned into a good or better one if correct interventions are applied.

But is this fully applicable to anyone at any point?
Neuroplasticity, also known as neural plasticity, or brain plasticity, is the ability of neural networks in the brain to change through growth and reorganization. It is when the brain is rewired to function in some way that differs from how it previously functioned.[1] These changes range from individual neuron pathways making new connections, to systematic adjustments like cortical remapping. Examples of neuroplasticity include circuit and network changes that result from learning a new ability, environmental influences, practice, and psychological stress.[2][3][4][5][6][7]

Neuroplasticity was once thought by neuroscientists to manifest only during childhood,[8][9] but research in the latter half of the 20th century showed that many aspects of the brain can be altered (or are "plastic") even through adulthood.[10][11] However, the developing brain exhibits a higher degree of plasticity than the adult brain.[12] Activity-dependent plasticity can have significant implications for healthy development, learning, memory, and recovery from brain damage.[13][14][15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity
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Re: Can any character be changed at any point?

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JackDaydream wrote: May 9th, 2022, 1:53 am
Sushan wrote: May 8th, 2022, 10:13 pm This topic is about the May 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Maestro Monologue: Discover your Genius, Defeat your intruder, Design your destiny by Rob White


There is no coal of character so dead that it won’t glow and flame if but slightly turned
-Neville Goddard-


Coal may appear as totally dead, but when slightly turned it may show its still glowing side, and when it catches oxygen it will burn again. Neville Goddard compares this with human character and character qualities. As per him anyone can be turned into a good or better one if correct interventions are applied.

But is this fully applicable to anyone at any point? There are some coal that are totally dead which cannot be lit by turning to any side. Similarly, I think there are people who cannot be salvaged or reluctant to any change. At the same time there are things like personalities and personality disorders. Up to what extent Neville Goddard is correct in context of all these?
Part of the issue about changing another is whether a person wishes to change. Even with people who wish to change it is not simple.

With the people who don't wish to change it also depends on what it is that needs to be altered. In the past, there were attempts to alter aspects such as sexual orientation, often through behaviour modification. That had a lot of negative effects and, now is not really used. Change is often about therapy, in particular for those diagnosed with personality disorders, especially antisocial personality, which is the diagnosis often given to some people who commit violent crimes. There may be a certain amount who are wishing to change but it depends on the underlying features, especially whether there is basic regard for others.

In those who wish to change, fixed behaviour patterns may be a problem. For example, a person who drinks too much alcohol may wish to stop but be lacking in ability to alter this, especially if drinking is an established repertoire and basic coping mechanism. Addictions are one aspect which people may seek to change but they may wish to change many others, like the basic tendency towards depression and associated negativity. But, it is not easy because these go deep, going back to childhood and the combination of nature and nurture.

Based on the idea of changing a person because there is an 'official' psychiatric recognition that there is a need to change and individuals own wish to change, I would argue that Goddard's comparison with coal is rather restive. Coal lacks reflective consciousness and is physical matter. The idea of changing coal is meant to be a kind of metaphor perhaps, but it may not be a particularly good one because the coal is purely physical. Changing minds may be a lot more complicated because the mind goes much deeper, even by those who see behaviour as programmed.
I agree with your thoughts on the used metaphor. Yes, human minds are much more complex than mere physical things.

We all have different personalities. Some are preferred by others and some are not. But people do not change their personalities just because of the social pressure. Some personalities are diagnosed as disorders because they are either too much annoying to others or harmful. Sadly many of such people end up with comorb psychiatric illnesses because it is quite difficult to change their personalities, just like a totally burned out coal.

And, yes, the personal factor of willingness to change also play a major role in this changing process. Understanding of having an issue with one's own self is the first step to change. This step is much necessary when addictions are addressed.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Sushan
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Re: Can any character be changed at any point?

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stevie wrote: May 9th, 2022, 5:01 am
Sushan wrote: May 8th, 2022, 10:13 pm Coal may appear as totally dead, but when slightly turned it may show its still glowing side, and when it catches oxygen it will burn again. Neville Goddard compares this with human character and character qualities. As per him anyone can be turned into a good or better one if correct interventions are applied.

But is this fully applicable to anyone at any point?
Neuroplasticity, also known as neural plasticity, or brain plasticity, is the ability of neural networks in the brain to change through growth and reorganization. It is when the brain is rewired to function in some way that differs from how it previously functioned.[1] These changes range from individual neuron pathways making new connections, to systematic adjustments like cortical remapping. Examples of neuroplasticity include circuit and network changes that result from learning a new ability, environmental influences, practice, and psychological stress.[2][3][4][5][6][7]

Neuroplasticity was once thought by neuroscientists to manifest only during childhood,[8][9] but research in the latter half of the 20th century showed that many aspects of the brain can be altered (or are "plastic") even through adulthood.[10][11] However, the developing brain exhibits a higher degree of plasticity than the adult brain.[12] Activity-dependent plasticity can have significant implications for healthy development, learning, memory, and recovery from brain damage.[13][14][15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity
This is quite correct. Our brains are capable of learning new things, and sometimes it can totally change the initial programming of a certain area and reprogram it to perform duties of a non functioning part of the brain, like what can happen following a stroke. But this is not 100% guaranteed. Even in your quote it says that developing brain is the one that shows this ability at a good level. So when you become an adult there is a high chance for your brain to not change its programming, and that will simply make you a burned out coal which cannot be lit anymore.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Can any character be changed at any point?

Post by intentes_pupil »

Sushan wrote: May 8th, 2022, 10:13 pm [...] Up to what extent Neville Goddard is correct in context of all these?
The way I understand this metaphor, people have a chore. This might be composed out of chore believes, values and personality traits. As mentioned in one of the previous posts, our brain has the capability of learning, develop and rewire thanks to our Neurocortex. But! We still have a hard-wired part in ourselves that can be triggered given the proper stimuli.

From my point of view this is not necessarily true, given that it implies that there are "chore" believes, values and personality traits that cannot be changed. This

However, I would accept this argument - and therefore I think there is a context in which this is correct - if we stay within the biology domain. Meaning, those parts of the brain that are hard-wired to ourselves and control us in certain situations without being able (most of the time) to prevent it.
An example would be the amygdala, which given the proper stimuli (threat) will react and produce a physical response (pumping adrenaline in our body) that will be impossible for us to avoid.

From my point of view coal is our neurobiology.
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